I assume that the L1-P will have a sight glass like the L-II. Can anyone explain why this exists? There appears to be no separate fill valve so I am guessing it is an automatic fill situation, like the L-I, so what is the purpose of that sight glass?
If it is there for looks it would seem to me to be something else to maintain and be a real pain in the posterior.
Looks to me you're best served with the L1 that you already have, mods and all ;-)
A friend of mine built a huge sight glass into his Rocket machine. When he discussed it with his wife she had great reservations but, as he told me "at one point I just walked into the kitchen and started drilling" and that ended the discussion ;-) Even though it's not a mechanical necessity, I like the image of it. His sight glass is a huge round thing sitting on the front panel even, connected in two places with the boiler way behind it.
If one knows one will have water that's not really clear or that will surely scale up, it could be a consideration but when getting a big pro machine like this I think one would get the water right ahead of time.
The 240v with a larger boiler is what got my attention but there are things that have prompted question.
I have no clue as to how the drip tray looks and works, I do know it is shallow and since it is a pressing I would bet it does not have that substantial feel in heft. And does it remove for cleaning if you do NOT plumb it into a drain?
I do not know how the grid/wire drip tray cover fits into the machine.
The question about the bling/antiquated carryover from a bygone era called a sight glass.
Retrofitting a sight glass sure seems like asking for trouble. How has he liked it since doing it? Does he have a separate fill valve or is it still an autofill? And you are correct, get the water right to start with and not use the sight glass to analyze water :-)
I like the sight glass. I would also like to see some detailed pics of the LII/LIII drip tray to see how it fits but I'm hoping we'll get to see pics of the actual LI-P prototype this week which will be even better.
[quote=Stephen Sweeney post=7496Retrofitting a sight glass sure seems like asking for trouble. How has he liked it since doing it? Does he have a separate fill valve or is it still an autofill?
It's a Rocket Giotto machine, it has an auto fill like all modern machines. He has been an espresso machine service person all his adult life so he is very comfortable with the modification.
If I understand correctly the L1-P has the same auto fill mechanism as the L1.
The sight glass is very common on commercial lever machines and I also think that it is another indicator on what's going on inside the boiler. Auto fill can have problems sometimes for example when the water is too soft or scale forms on the probe etc.
I think it was cool if manual fill was offered, it would have been cheaper too since no need for that relatively expensive Gicar water level controller.
Also don't forget that the L1-P is a HX machine so the boiler will not be filled so frequently like on the L1.
Regarding the drip tray it depends if the drain box is connected to the frame and the drip tray just sits above.
Kfir post=7500 wrote: If I understand correctly the L1-P has the same auto fill mechanism as the L1.
The sight glass is very common on commercial lever machines and I also think that it is another indicator on what's going on inside the boiler. Auto fill can have problems sometimes for example when the water is too soft or scale forms on the probe etc.
I think it was cool if manual fill was offered, it would have been cheaper too since no need for that relatively expensive Gicar water level controller.
Also don't forget that the L1-P is a HX machine so the boiler will not be filled so frequently like on the L1.
Regarding the drip tray it depends if the drain box is connected to the frame and the drip tray just sits above.
Kfir.
So the sight glass is sort of a fail safe if the autofill provision is not acting properly. That makes sense and a reason for having it.
The drip tray attachment has me curious and I guess we will have to wait since Reis has said nothing about if the tray is easily removable for cleaning, like the L-I. I realize it is more shallow and has less holding capacity since it is not designed to HOLD anything and that is fine, but is it easily removed? I cannot drive to the center of the USA to look at the only L-II drip tray in North America, it is a very long trip for several days continuous driving.
the rationale you are putting forward is exactly the logic i extolled for the L1 and nothing has changed there
however, the 'P' in L1-P represents 'professional' and this means the intended market will be looking for certain features
one such feature is what you might call 'doors to manual' mode
so in the event of the water level sensor failing on a commercial machine owners expect to be able to turn their machine to manual fill mode and continue to engage in trade
of course this relies on you having a machine operator who is awake to the need to keep an eye on the sight glass in order to open (and shut) the manual fill valve on the side of the boiler in a timely fashion
does this make sense?
in a commercial environment an espresso machine is a cash printing machine - the cost of lost revenue arising from machine down time will almost always greatly exceed the cost of the parts & labour to affect a repair
I have no clue as to how the drip tray looks and works, I do know it is shallow and since it is a pressing I would bet it does not have that substantial feel in heft. And does it remove for cleaning if you do NOT plumb it into a drain?
imagine a form the same as the drip tray on your L1 (without the turn up along the back - which you machines will have as an earlier L1)
it just lifts up, just the same
but it needs to be plumbed - the tray has a hole in the bottom of it, but the tray is not connected to anything - instead the liquid runs out the hole in the bottom of the tray and drops a very short distance into a cup. the cup then has the drain fixed to it
Thanks for the photos Reiss. I see the white faced gauge, which certainly is a plus for me, and all the switch and lamps above it; looks good!
Does that bottom turnout on the front panel protrude far enough for water that hits the panel to run straight down into the drip tray? Is that exactly like the L-Iv2?
Are you going to have a manual fill valve or a fitting to allow for manual fill?
Thanks for the photos Reiss. I understand that the solenoid bypass for the fill water would be easy to accomplish and it would just mean 2 fill lines running to the machine, one from the filter main and the other from the same point but going onto the other side of the solenoid; a simple thing to do.
Does that turnout on the front panel turnout exactly like it does on the L-Iv2? If so I think I might be able to find a local L-Iv2 to see in person. I knew that turnout was nothing new but how it reacts with the L-II and the L-III series drip trays is a total mystery to me. Like does it hang out far enough to drip water straight down into the tray and not have water migrate back under the panel?
Comments
I saw nothing about the L-II and the L-III indicating they had the pop off panels.
So yes, the L1-P will def have them - it's the only way to go
If it is there for looks it would seem to me to be something else to maintain and be a real pain in the posterior.
A friend of mine built a huge sight glass into his Rocket machine. When he discussed it with his wife she had great reservations but, as he told me "at one point I just walked into the kitchen and started drilling" and that ended the discussion ;-) Even though it's not a mechanical necessity, I like the image of it. His sight glass is a huge round thing sitting on the front panel even, connected in two places with the boiler way behind it.
If one knows one will have water that's not really clear or that will surely scale up, it could be a consideration but when getting a big pro machine like this I think one would get the water right ahead of time.
I have no clue as to how the drip tray looks and works, I do know it is shallow and since it is a pressing I would bet it does not have that substantial feel in heft. And does it remove for cleaning if you do NOT plumb it into a drain?
I do not know how the grid/wire drip tray cover fits into the machine.
The question about the bling/antiquated carryover from a bygone era called a sight glass.
Retrofitting a sight glass sure seems like asking for trouble. How has he liked it since doing it? Does he have a separate fill valve or is it still an autofill? And you are correct, get the water right to start with and not use the sight glass to analyze water :-)
http://kostverlorenvaart.blogspot.nl/2015/02/getting-bestmax-premium-water-filter.html
It's a Rocket Giotto machine, it has an auto fill like all modern machines. He has been an espresso machine service person all his adult life so he is very comfortable with the modification.
The sight glass is very common on commercial lever machines and I also think that it is another indicator on what's going on inside the boiler.
Auto fill can have problems sometimes for example when the water is too soft or scale forms on the probe etc.
I think it was cool if manual fill was offered, it would have been cheaper too since no need for that relatively expensive Gicar water level controller.
Also don't forget that the L1-P is a HX machine so the boiler will not be filled so frequently like on the L1.
Regarding the drip tray it depends if the drain box is connected to the frame and the drip tray just sits above.
Kfir.
So the sight glass is sort of a fail safe if the autofill provision is not acting properly. That makes sense and a reason for having it.
The drip tray attachment has me curious and I guess we will have to wait since Reis has said nothing about if the tray is easily removable for cleaning, like the L-I. I realize it is more shallow and has less holding capacity since it is not designed to HOLD anything and that is fine, but is it easily removed? I cannot drive to the center of the USA to look at the only L-II drip tray in North America, it is a very long trip for several days continuous driving.
BTW Frans, that is a nice filtration system!
you're on the money
the rationale you are putting forward is exactly the logic i extolled for the L1 and nothing has changed there
however, the 'P' in L1-P represents 'professional' and this means the intended market will be looking for certain features
one such feature is what you might call 'doors to manual' mode
so in the event of the water level sensor failing on a commercial machine owners expect to be able to turn their machine to manual fill mode and continue to engage in trade
of course this relies on you having a machine operator who is awake to the need to keep an eye on the sight glass in order to open (and shut) the manual fill valve on the side of the boiler in a timely fashion
does this make sense?
in a commercial environment an espresso machine is a cash printing machine - the cost of lost revenue arising from machine down time will almost always greatly exceed the cost of the parts & labour to affect a repair
I have no clue as to how the drip tray looks and works, I do know it is shallow and since it is a pressing I would bet it does not have that substantial feel in heft. And does it remove for cleaning if you do NOT plumb it into a drain?
imagine a form the same as the drip tray on your L1 (without the turn up along the back - which you machines will have as an earlier L1)
it just lifts up, just the same
but it needs to be plumbed - the tray has a hole in the bottom of it, but the tray is not connected to anything - instead the liquid runs out the hole in the bottom of the tray and drops a very short distance into a cup. the cup then has the drain fixed to it
Does that bottom turnout on the front panel protrude far enough for water that hits the panel to run straight down into the drip tray? Is that exactly like the L-Iv2?
Are you going to have a manual fill valve or a fitting to allow for manual fill?
Looking good so far but where are my glass side panels? Reiss, just joking
manual fill is achieved by having an additional pipe tee'd in at right angles to the cold water inlet pipe that goes to the solenoid
on the T you have a ball valve
if you open the ball valve the water heads into the T pipe, bypassing the inlet solenoid
simple!
just remember to keep an eye on the sight glass as it fills and remember to close it again
the only time most owners will use this mode is when they are filling the machine for the very first time: this is important to note
Does that turnout on the front panel turnout exactly like it does on the L-Iv2? If so I think I might be able to find a local L-Iv2 to see in person. I knew that turnout was nothing new but how it reacts with the L-II and the L-III series drip trays is a total mystery to me. Like does it hang out far enough to drip water straight down into the tray and not have water migrate back under the panel?
What wattage are you going to use for the boiler? I need to plan the power line.
As explained before the top of the L1 is useless for warming cups as it doesn't get hot enough (use hot water)
On the L2, L3, and L1-P the top of the boiler is much closer to the top panel, so it is much more effective as a cup warmer
The element will be 2.7KW (240V)
Really looking forward to seeing it in my home.
Will lowering the preinfusion pressure make the shots taste more like the L-I???