Tom Jagiello post=10201 wrote: Sorry for digging out an old thread, but I didn't want to start a new one just for a quick IMS model check.
It seems like the basket to get is model no:
IMS B68 h26.5
Can someone confirm which single is the best one to try on the L1?
Rgds, Tom
I have and use without difficulty the IMS B70 2T h26.5 M and the IMS B70 2T h24.5 M baskets. I don't recall the difference between B70 and B68 baskets. (2T, as you probably know, stands for two cups: Italian due tazze )
I have a couple of IMS The Single baskets, but I've not had any luck with them. I now use the Strega 7g single basket exclusively.
love my The Single, must do another video of it - the beauty being that you can use your normal tamper on it, a huge advantage
68 is the distance in millimetres from rolled lip to lip
the 70 baskets have a slightly shallower rolled profile on the lip for PFs with a thicker top edge, but both 68 & 70 profiles work on our PFs just fine
Matt / Reiss thanks for the info, I will give the IMS a try, currently I'm using a VST 17g basket, but I'm not super impressed and it seems a bit finicky when it comes to distribution.
Tom, I think you will find them to be an improvement. I've enjoyed the taste I get with VST baskets, especially the 15g, but frankly I have never been able to find any consistency. I can get one, maybe two great shots, then the next one is spritzing all over creation. (LI/HG-One combination)
Thanks Salvatore, I've got one on order, hopefully it arrives tomorrow and I can have a play with it.
Reiss you wouldn't happen to have any of those 'The Single' baskets knocking about somewhere, looking for a home? I couldn't find any in the UK (or I'm not looking well enough).
Go with 1460310 if you can get it. It is 23.5mm high as opposed to 22.5mm which is the 1460302. The LI likes a bit more depth which the La Marzocco variants offer.
After playing about the ristretto is fun. You do lose a bit of taste spectrum in a condensed shot, but it more than makes up for loads of mouthfeel and body.
Gino Magnotta post=10222 wrote: The difference is with the height.
Go with 1460310 if you can get it. It is 23.5mm high as opposed to 22.5mm which is the 1460302. The LI likes a bit more depth which the La Marzocco variants offer.
After playing about the ristretto is fun. You do lose a bit of taste spectrum in a condensed shot, but it more than makes up for loads of mouthfeel and body.
I am an advocate of single shots and I've found a true single basket to work better than the IMS. I have an LM Strada 7g (which is basically the same as the VST 7g) and I've been getting on with it pretty well. I can easily pull tasty "normal" length shots (i.e. 6.5g -> 13g) rather than ristrettos. The downside is that you need a 41mm tamper.
MattW post=10224 wrote: I am an advocate of single shots and I've found a true single basket to work better than the IMS. I have an LM Strada 7g (which is basically the same as the VST 7g) and I've been getting on with it pretty well. I can easily pull tasty "normal" length shots (i.e. 6.5g -> 13g) rather than ristrettos. The downside is that you need a 41mm tamper.
I use the same basket, with good results. My current formula is 7g beans for 17g of espresso, in 30 (plus/minus 5) seconds.
I use the same basket, with good results. My current formula is 7g beans for 17g of espresso, in 30 (plus/minus 5) seconds.
Matt
Singles are the way forward! I find them more delicate and don't overwhelm the palatte in the way that a 40ml double can. And you can have more of them!
Another fan of the LM single basket here. I pull my shots a bit tighter... I'm aiming for 10-12g from 8g of beans... and have always felt they are the LI's true calling.
I've never splurged on a 41mm tamper, instead I have an old pill bottle which fits perfectly.
To be specific, I'm using the LM Advance Precision Basket. Same as the Strada (VST) except I believe it isn't optically scanned for defects post-production.
I too had difficulty using the single with my HG-one an L1. I had spent two pounds and two whole days fiddling with every variable I could imagine independently and could still not get consistent shots. My theory is that the inherent problem with HG-1 is that there is no consistent weight of beans inhibiting popping...leading to a wider standard deviation of particle size, as compared to a electric with semi-full hopper.
In a few weeks I will put my new compak e10 OD to the test with the singles and determine if this is any better. I will report back here.... of course by then it will be with a L1-P and not just the L1 I previously had, so that will factor in too.
In a few weeks I will put my new compak e10 OD to the test with the singles and determine if this is any better. I will report back here.... of course by then it will be with a L1-P and not just the L1 I previously had, so that will factor in too.
Ben, I have found that even the E10 can produce some problems depending on the weight of the beans in the hopper. I have the big hopper and I've found better results with the hopper at least half full (about 0.5 kgs).
I fully endorse your comments about the HG-One. To me its a design problem with the shaft mounted on two bearings close together and then extending more than twice the distance to the grind surface. I can only imagine the flex and runout with the burrs as they are pushed from side to side during grinding. The wide distribution of particle size has to be the result.
The pop corning illustrates that the beans are being pulverised rather than shaved not unlike a hammer mill.
Trevor Watters post=10274 wrote: Ben, I have found that even the E10 can produce some problems depending on the weight of the beans in the hopper. I have the big hopper and I've found better results with the hopper at least half full (about 0.5 kgs).
Trevor: Are you quite pleased with the E10 so far? Any wishes you had gotten the e8?
I plan to place a canvas bag with 0.5 to 1lb of large marbles to sit on top of the beans, so that so long as there are any beans in the hopper there will be a minimum of weight above the beans. (yes nervous nillies, I will take care to eliminate any chance of marble or the bag getting pulled in to the motor, lest you worry!)
I too had difficulty using the single with my HG-one an L1.
Ben,
Just to be clear, I don't have any problems with singles. The only issue I've ever had, and I believe others have echoed my experience, is with VST double baskets. They are just inconsistent, with spritzing being the most common flaw. As for the singles, I've always produced wonderful shots.
I've read a lot about different methods to achieve a "hopper-like" effect with the HG-One, but I haven't encountered any reason to change things, especially since the IMS baskets work beautifully. I have started looking for a new grinder, however, since my wife has started leaving for work very early, before I rise, and she has problems turning the HG-One. I look forward to reading how you make out. Compak is high on my list.
Ben post=10275 wrote: Trevor: Are you quite pleased with the E10 so far? Any wishes you had gotten the e8?
I plan to place a canvas bag with 0.5 to 1lb of large marbles to sit on top of the beans, so that so long as there are any beans in the hopper there will be a minimum of weight above the beans. (yes nervous nillies, I will take care to eliminate any chance of marble or the bag getting pulled in to the motor, lest you worry!)
I guess my experience with the E10 is that's its designed for a commercial situation where shot after shot is being ground and there's a good head of beans in the hopper.
I think its near the top of conical grinders and your large marbles idea could work. I haven't looked for a solution after I tried with a short OE hopper and a chunk of ground timber on top of the beans - it needed a longer chute to ensure the effect on the beans at the burrs was the same as a hopper full of beans. To make life simple, I just fill the hopper and go with the result adjusting my tamp a little or the grind to compensate for the degradation as the hopper empties.
From all reports the R120 is a great machine and not affected by the amount of hopper fill. It also appears to work better for lighter roasts as they are harder to grind. I don't have the bank roll to chop and change. Some people have turned single dose grinding into an art form but you will pay for it.
I can't believe I' m actually reading negative comments about the HG-1 finally in all seriousness though, the main issues of the HG-1 in my opinion are:
a) no support for the bottom of the shaft - there will be flex in the shaft if you put a load / bending force at the bottom of the shaft, the smaller burr will want to wander depending on the distribution of beans and bean elemens in between the burrs. This will not be visible with a naked eye, but does exist, you can check it with a DTI quite easily, just mount the HG-1 completely stationary (clamp it down to the counter), make sure the DTI needle is resting steady against the bottom of the shaft (or the edge of the bottom burr cap) and grind away. The issue you might see is flex in other parts of the grinder (where the body plates meet) so your DTI might show more movement, than just the shaft flex. (FYI I've measured this on my ZR grinder and even with a 1" stainless steel shaft I was seeing up to 0.1mm flex measured just under the bottom burr)
This flex will cause burr movement and effectively cause the burr gap to vary as you grind which is of course bad for grind consistency.
b) single dosing and no weight above the beans - as you start off grinding a single dose of beans I believe you get a finer grind at the start compared to what the burrs spit out at the end of the grinding process when there's hardly anything left in the burr chamber. This will again cause more variation in grind size and probably leave you with a basket which has more fines on the bottom and more boulders on the top. If you have a weight on top of the beans you get a constant feed and force (probably not constant, but it seems that above burrs don't really care as long as you have enough weight) behind the beans which probably means a more constant top load on the burr set and more consistant grind quality.
c) no mixing chamber for the grinds - see point b) above re comment about a mixture of fine particles and boulders, you should really mix the lot before pulling a shot, which is probably why the HG needs mixing chambers, whisks etc.
All top loaded, gravity fed grinders will suffer from lack of bean weight imho, they were designed with hopper operation in mind and should be used like this. The only design which doesn't seem to suffer from bean column weight issues is flat burr grinders with horizontal feeding augers and vertical burr assemblies.
Until now, I have refrained from dumping on the HG One design but you have enunciated all the factors that became evident to me with it's use. Perhaps some current owners can get a reasonable grind with darker roasts where the beans require less force to grind, break up and fit through the burrs. In any case, it's a case of "making do" rather than being optimal.
I've been using a VST 18g ridgeless basket since receiving the L1 and dosing between 16.5 to 17.2g in it. Anybody have any experience between the two of these baskets? looking forward to trying out the IMS
ok, so i received the B68 2T h26.5 IMS basket this week from espresso parts (Linklink).
I'm enjoying the taste from it, when the extraction comes out well.
however, I seem to get these streams immediately when pulling the lever down during PI. I've tried dosing up and tamping a little more, which seems to help on occasion. But i can't seem to consistently make this not happen. I don't have this issue with the VST basket, same beans, same prep, etc...
see attached for photo of what it looks like immediately after lowering the lever.
when i tamp the same as i do with the VST basket (very light), i actually get more of those streams. So i've been tamping a little firmer, but still relatively light.
i'll try a little finer and see how it goes. as of now though, its coming out a little less than 1g/s.
beans are 8 days old, grinding on a monolith flat, and using WDT to distribute.
I believe that the IMS baskets actually needed a finer grind vs the VST baskets back when I was testing them out side by side. Even though there appears to be fewer holes in the IMS (never counted them ) the flow they allow might be higher.
The photo looks like the espresso is sneaking out the holes on the edge, which is REALLY strange as I thought the VST baskets are more likely to do that. That is, I would think your VST prep ritual would be more than adequate for the IMS. Perhaps you are already grinding finer and you would benefit from a little better distribution?
Keep trying a tweak here & there, maybe a little stirring or a gentle tap on the tamp mat. Distribution sometimes mystifies me too.
Comments
It seems like the basket to get is model no:
IMS B68 h26.5
Can someone confirm which single is the best one to try on the L1?
Rgds,
Tom
I have and use without difficulty the IMS B70 2T h26.5 M and the IMS B70 2T h24.5 M baskets. I don't recall the difference between B70 and B68 baskets. (2T, as you probably know, stands for two cups: Italian due tazze )
I have a couple of IMS The Single baskets, but I've not had any luck with them. I now use the Strega 7g single basket exclusively.
Matt
here - http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/another-ims-competizione-basket-is-on-its-way
and here - http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/ims-the-single-baskets-are-here
love my The Single, must do another video of it - the beauty being that you can use your normal tamper on it, a huge advantage
68 is the distance in millimetres from rolled lip to lip
the 70 baskets have a slightly shallower rolled profile on the lip for PFs with a thicker top edge, but both 68 & 70 profiles work on our PFs just fine
best
reiss.
Regards,
Tom
Reiss you wouldn't happen to have any of those 'The Single' baskets knocking about somewhere, looking for a home?
Regards,
Tom
https://www.bellabarista.co.uk/the-single-1-cup-12gr-cup-filter-by-ims.html
Matt
we will stock IMS products eventually, but they are in the refinements bucket - next year i expect
kind regards
reiss.
1460302 The Single 1 Cup (12gr) Cup Filter by IMS
and
1460301 - The Single 1 Cup (9.5gr) Cup Filter by IMS
Not sure what the differences are though.
Regards,
Tom
Go with 1460310 if you can get it. It is 23.5mm high as opposed to 22.5mm which is the 1460302. The LI likes a bit more depth which the La Marzocco variants offer.
In the UK these guys have it.
http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/ims_the_single_marzocco_12g.html
After playing about the ristretto is fun. You do lose a bit of taste spectrum in a condensed shot, but it more than makes up for loads of mouthfeel and body.
This seems like sound advice.
Matt
I use the same basket, with good results. My current formula is 7g beans for 17g of espresso, in 30 (plus/minus 5) seconds.
Matt
Singles are the way forward! I find them more delicate and don't overwhelm the palatte in the way that a 40ml double can. And you can have more of them!
Rgds,
T.
I've never splurged on a 41mm tamper, instead I have an old pill bottle which fits perfectly.
I too had difficulty using the single with my HG-one an L1. I had spent two pounds and two whole days fiddling with every variable I could imagine independently and could still not get consistent shots. My theory is that the inherent problem with HG-1 is that there is no consistent weight of beans inhibiting popping...leading to a wider standard deviation of particle size, as compared to a electric with semi-full hopper.
In a few weeks I will put my new compak e10 OD to the test with the singles and determine if this is any better. I will report back here.... of course by then it will be with a L1-P and not just the L1 I previously had, so that will factor in too.
Ben, I have found that even the E10 can produce some problems depending on the weight of the beans in the hopper. I have the big hopper and I've found better results with the hopper at least half full (about 0.5 kgs).
I fully endorse your comments about the HG-One. To me its a design problem with the shaft mounted on two bearings close together and then extending more than twice the distance to the grind surface. I can only imagine the flex and runout with the burrs as they are pushed from side to side during grinding. The wide distribution of particle size has to be the result.
The pop corning illustrates that the beans are being pulverised rather than shaved not unlike a hammer mill.
Trevor
Trevor: Are you quite pleased with the E10 so far? Any wishes you had gotten the e8?
I plan to place a canvas bag with 0.5 to 1lb of large marbles to sit on top of the beans, so that so long as there are any beans in the hopper there will be a minimum of weight above the beans. (yes nervous nillies, I will take care to eliminate any chance of marble or the bag getting pulled in to the motor, lest you worry!)
Ben,
Just to be clear, I don't have any problems with singles. The only issue I've ever had, and I believe others have echoed my experience, is with VST double baskets. They are just inconsistent, with spritzing being the most common flaw. As for the singles, I've always produced wonderful shots.
I've read a lot about different methods to achieve a "hopper-like" effect with the HG-One, but I haven't encountered any reason to change things, especially since the IMS baskets work beautifully. I have started looking for a new grinder, however, since my wife has started leaving for work very early, before I rise, and she has problems turning the HG-One. I look forward to reading how you make out. Compak is high on my list.
Salvatore
I guess my experience with the E10 is that's its designed for a commercial situation where shot after shot is being ground and there's a good head of beans in the hopper.
I think its near the top of conical grinders and your large marbles idea could work. I haven't looked for a solution after I tried with a short OE hopper and a chunk of ground timber on top of the beans - it needed a longer chute to ensure the effect on the beans at the burrs was the same as a hopper full of beans. To make life simple, I just fill the hopper and go with the result adjusting my tamp a little or the grind to compensate for the degradation as the hopper empties.
From all reports the R120 is a great machine and not affected by the amount of hopper fill. It also appears to work better for lighter roasts as they are harder to grind. I don't have the bank roll to chop and change. Some people have turned single dose grinding into an art form but you will pay for it.
Trevor
I can't believe I' m actually reading negative comments about the HG-1
a) no support for the bottom of the shaft - there will be flex in the shaft if you put a load / bending force at the bottom of the shaft, the smaller burr will want to wander depending on the distribution of beans and bean elemens in between the burrs. This will not be visible with a naked eye, but does exist, you can check it with a DTI quite easily, just mount the HG-1 completely stationary (clamp it down to the counter), make sure the DTI needle is resting steady against the bottom of the shaft (or the edge of the bottom burr cap) and grind away. The issue you might see is flex in other parts of the grinder (where the body plates meet) so your DTI might show more movement, than just the shaft flex. (FYI I've measured this on my ZR grinder and even with a 1" stainless steel shaft I was seeing up to 0.1mm flex measured just under the bottom burr)
This flex will cause burr movement and effectively cause the burr gap to vary as you grind which is of course bad for grind consistency.
b) single dosing and no weight above the beans - as you start off grinding a single dose of beans I believe you get a finer grind at the start compared to what the burrs spit out at the end of the grinding process when there's hardly anything left in the burr chamber. This will again cause more variation in grind size and probably leave you with a basket which has more fines on the bottom and more boulders on the top. If you have a weight on top of the beans you get a constant feed and force (probably not constant, but it seems that above burrs don't really care as long as you have enough weight) behind the beans which probably means a more constant top load on the burr set and more consistant grind quality.
c) no mixing chamber for the grinds - see point b) above re comment about a mixture of fine particles and boulders, you should really mix the lot before pulling a shot, which is probably why the HG needs mixing chambers, whisks etc.
All top loaded, gravity fed grinders will suffer from lack of bean weight imho, they were designed with hopper operation in mind and should be used like this. The only design which doesn't seem to suffer from bean column weight issues is flat burr grinders with horizontal feeding augers and vertical burr assemblies.
Rgds,
T.
Until now, I have refrained from dumping on the HG One design but you have enunciated all the factors that became evident to me with it's use. Perhaps some current owners can get a reasonable grind with darker roasts where the beans require less force to grind, break up and fit through the burrs. In any case, it's a case of "making do" rather than being optimal.
Trevor
I've been using a VST 18g ridgeless basket since receiving the L1 and dosing between 16.5 to 17.2g in it. Anybody have any experience between the two of these baskets? looking forward to trying out the IMS
if you search for 'IMS' in the top right you should find quite a lot of prior discussion
kind regards
reiss.
I'm enjoying the taste from it, when the extraction comes out well.
however, I seem to get these streams immediately when pulling the lever down during PI. I've tried dosing up and tamping a little more, which seems to help on occasion. But i can't seem to consistently make this not happen. I don't have this issue with the VST basket, same beans, same prep, etc...
see attached for photo of what it looks like immediately after lowering the lever.
any ideas on why this happens with this basket?
Usually VST baskets are the trickier ones, the first to reveal any errors in freshness, grind, dose or tamp.
i'll try a little finer and see how it goes. as of now though, its coming out a little less than 1g/s.
beans are 8 days old, grinding on a monolith flat, and using WDT to distribute.
The photo looks like the espresso is sneaking out the holes on the edge, which is REALLY strange as I thought the VST baskets are more likely to do that. That is, I would think your VST prep ritual would be more than adequate for the IMS. Perhaps you are already grinding finer and you would benefit from a little better distribution?
Keep trying a tweak here & there, maybe a little stirring or a gentle tap on the tamp mat. Distribution sometimes mystifies me too.