Salvatore Taibi post=3570 wrote: My machine is currently set at 1.2bar, and temp measured at the grouphead using one of EricS thermometers varies between 84-88 deg.
Where do you place the probe? The temperature varies around the outside of the group. I try to estimate where the temp on the outside is close to the temp I read when using a probe in the puck or the SCACE. Then I can more or less guess from the reading on the outside what the puck temp will be (typically from 96 going down to 86 during a longer pull).
Sometimes, when I like an espresso very much, I also taste the rest of the outpour fromnthe group that has fallen into a second cup that I place under the group when pulling my espresso cup away. On a lovely espresso the "remains" frequently also tastes surprisingly nice, sweet like some specialty filter coffee does. I don't drink it all, just a sip.
I just measured it and the shot from 20g beans yielded me 12% TDS in 20.9g espresso. Then the 22g of the remaining outpour was 3.5% TDS. So the espresso dissolved 18% from the ground coffee and the remains pulled another almost-4%.
Off topic I know, but Van Pommeren are really nice people and have a retail shop in Utrecht, NL too where they are happy to chat coffee and equipment (which they have a lot of!).
I just received a B70 24.5 basket and am beginning to play around with it. The size seems consistent with what I am used to, very close to the OEM basket.
I think the 26,5 is the most versatile. I've used it with 15-18 g of coffee and it seems like it can take 20g if you tamp a litter firmer and grind a little corser. I haven't really tested the 18-22g but will play around with it a little more now when I have 1,5 kg of LONDINIUM Brazilian Yellow Icatu from Fazenda Passeio I will buy the B70 1T H26.5 E 7-9g single filter and the B70 2T H24.5 M 12-18g as well so I can experiment and find out what i like the most.
The stock/standard L1 filter is not bad in anyway. It's 24,5 mm high, similar to the IMS B70 2T H24.5 M 12-18g. The IMS has a smoother/rounder edge between the bottom and the side.
I also use a VST single basket a lot I am dosing 8.5-9g of coffee and getting 18-19g espresso out. The results are really good and I prefer them over a super dense thick ristretto.
I have an old video of a nice single shot from this basket, I'll try to upload it later...
On the question of IMS 26 v 24, I plumped for the 26 purely on the fact that the LI seems to require a bit more headroom than other machines. I don't think there is any other difference in the baskets themselves - same number of holes and hole dimensions, same tapering shape, same material.
Having said that I would be interested if others like Martin actually find real differences between the two in practice, as the above is probably a bit more speculation than fact.
Gino Magnotta post=3579 wrote: On the question of IMS 26 v 24, I plumped for the 26 purely on the fact that the LI seems to require a bit more headroom than other machines. I don't think there is any other difference in the baskets themselves - same number of holes and hole dimensions, same tapering shape, same material.
Having said that I would be interested if others like Martin actually find real differences between the two in practice, as the above is probably a bit more speculation than fact.
I prefer the 26.5 over the 24.5 for the convenience and versatility you get from it and for the bigger headroom. I really like the ridgeless model. My 26.5 have straight wall and convex bottom. Honestly, I have no clue if there is a taste difference between the 24.5 and the 26.5. Regards
Frans Goddijn post=3571 wrote: Where do you place the probe?
Frans, I placed the probe based off EricS recommendations due to his research. Looking top-down, it sits at 9 o'clock and 4.3cm up from the bottom of the group. He had determined this location to most accurately depict what he saw with his Scace. Of course, I understand each machine can vary somewhat, but it has given me a baseline. In other words, I know how temperature changes affect the taste on my machine. I wish I had a Scace to play around with, but that will have to wait for another day. I would like to get a TDS meter, as I think that would be a more useful tool to use.
Frans Goddijn post=3571 wrote: Sometimes, when I like an espresso very much, I also taste the rest of the outpour fromnthe group that has fallen into a second cup that I place under the group when pulling my espresso cup away. On a lovely espresso the "remains" frequently also tastes surprisingly nice, sweet like some specialty filter coffee does. I don't drink it all, just a sip.
I'm glad to know I'm not the only lunatic who does this!
Salvatore Taibi post=3593 wrote: I wish I had a Scace to play around with
If you lived closer you could use mine for a while, but I find it not overwhelmingly useful. Mine fell on my lap during the period of intense measurements and temperature logs & graphs on up to 6 points on the inside and outside of the Londinium I. That was a remarkable time and most unspectacular because the outcome was that all is fine anyway and the briefest of cleaning flushes after a shot prevents any unplanned fall or rise of temperature, of which the machine would recover by itself anyway.
More useful than the SCACE is a little probe in the puck but working with that is less easy because you have to make sure the puck is not broken by the probe. The SCACE is much easier but then also a bit less accurate. The probe of it is above the plasic "puck" so it leaves one guessing at what happens to the coffee in the puck if there was a real puck.
I may be over simplifying temp management but...after taking temp readings via thermocouple, reading and more reading...then just relying on my palate to be the final judge...I have serious doubts whether or not the time invested for empirical temp data of the group and water flow really solve anything...real world.
Unless you are using the same bean for months on end...and even that will change with the crop's season...its like chasing the same moving target anyway.
Again...maybe I'm being a simpleton on this issue.
I certainly appreciate the work you did during that period of time. It may not have produced any revolutionary outcomes, but it did put to rest a lot of whimsical theories. I tend to pull my shots somewhat tight, and therefore I can easily cause the machine to stall. Fortunately, however, a quick flush has always been part of my routine so it has never been an issue.
The LI is such a simple machine, and in truth, espresso is a simple process. It is really quite beautiful.
I totally agree with you. There is no temp measurement that I have not done on this machine and a few others and the conclusion is that it works fine out of the box ;-)
If an extraction comes out too hot, you can taste it and some shots that are officially not hot enough can taste delicious all the same.
On my machine, since I have all the equimpent anyway, I can know when the group is above 84ºC that it has warmed up sufficiently and when it goes above 90ºC in warmer weather I may have to turn down the p-stat a bit.
If a shot comes out beautifully, an even flow from the naked porfafilter, somewhat less than a gram per second and not too slow, and it lookes nicely flecked in the cup and it tastes wonderful, than a temperature measurement will also tell you that it went well but that will be superfluous.
Extensive temp measurements on an open machine are useless as the machine is normally not open, and a series of measurements using a Scace device is equally useless as it will tell you how wonderfully you can heat up a piece of plastic.
Measuring with old beans that are so-so is also useless.
Pulling and tasting a few hundred espresso's over a few months teaches you a lot!
Hello, From Reiss' blog about the IMS B68 2T 26,5 ridgeless order. I already have this basket since a while and I can confirm this is the best basket one can possibly get for the L1. Let Reiss confirm that pretty soon Regards Martin
To make decision even harder... I really enjoy the Reneka filter. I use it for "singles" , dosing around 14 grams. Wonderful Crema and taste. For doubles I use IMS 26.5.
Dan Moshe post=3622 wrote: To make decision even harder... I really enjoy the Reneka filter. I use it for "singles" , dosing around 14 grams. Wonderful Crema and taste. For doubles I use IMS 26.5.
Thanks for reporting this! I had all but forgotten I have that basket too. I will play with it along your 'recipe', using 14g and grinding a bit finer than I normally do. The finer 'mesh' of the filter does allow a slower extraction than one would normally get with such a wide bottom. How much espresso do you get in the cup, a shot of 20g?
Dan Moshe post=3650 wrote: I stop the shot around 30g (20+ seconds). I had good experiments with lower doses too 12-12.5g.
This morning I used 14g in the Reneka, pulled 30g of espresso, got 8.6% TDS which corresponds with 19.10% extraction. Tasted good too, will next try unwashed Costa Rican beans, pulling away the shot at the 26.3g as suggested by the VST app and see what that reads like:
I sent my dodgy basket back to espresso services for a replacement as I was unhappy with it and this is the response I got
'Hi Aaron
I have checked and all the baskets we have from our supplier are like this.
I have refunded the basket and cost of return postage to your account.
Regards'
So I would advise against ordering from them until they sort this out.
For reference these are pictures of the brand new basket i received, I have checked with other owners of IMS baskets and they all received pristine ones.
Comments
Where do you place the probe? The temperature varies around the outside of the group. I try to estimate where the temp on the outside is close to the temp I read when using a probe in the puck or the SCACE. Then I can more or less guess from the reading on the outside what the puck temp will be (typically from 96 going down to 86 during a longer pull).
Sometimes, when I like an espresso very much, I also taste the rest of the outpour fromnthe group that has fallen into a second cup that I place under the group when pulling my espresso cup away. On a lovely espresso the "remains" frequently also tastes surprisingly nice, sweet like some specialty filter coffee does. I don't drink it all, just a sip.
I just measured it and the shot from 20g beans yielded me 12% TDS in 20.9g espresso. Then the 22g of the remaining outpour was 3.5% TDS. So the espresso dissolved 18% from the ground coffee and the remains pulled another almost-4%.
I dose between 17-18 grams.
So h26.5 or h24.5, what do current IMS owners recommend please?
Off topic I know, but Van Pommeren are really nice people and have a retail shop in Utrecht, NL too where they are happy to chat coffee and equipment (which they have a lot of!).
The stock/standard L1 filter is not bad in anyway. It's 24,5 mm high, similar to the IMS B70 2T H24.5 M 12-18g. The IMS has a smoother/rounder edge between the bottom and the side.
The results are really good and I prefer them over a super dense thick ristretto.
I have an old video of a nice single shot from this basket, I'll try to upload it later...
Kfir.
Having said that I would be interested if others like Martin actually find real differences between the two in practice, as the above is probably a bit more speculation than fact.
I prefer the 26.5 over the 24.5 for the convenience and versatility you get from it and for the bigger headroom. I really like the ridgeless model. My 26.5 have straight wall and convex bottom. Honestly, I have no clue if there is a taste difference between the 24.5 and the 26.5.
Regards
Any recommendations for a UK supplier? The 2 I can find are quite expensive....
Thanks Frans for your info below. Link now cured
http://www.espressoservices.co.uk/
Frans, I placed the probe based off EricS recommendations due to his research. Looking top-down, it sits at 9 o'clock and 4.3cm up from the bottom of the group. He had determined this location to most accurately depict what he saw with his Scace. Of course, I understand each machine can vary somewhat, but it has given me a baseline. In other words, I know how temperature changes affect the taste on my machine. I wish I had a Scace to play around with, but that will have to wait for another day. I would like to get a TDS meter, as I think that would be a more useful tool to use.
I'm glad to know I'm not the only lunatic who does this!
If you lived closer you could use mine for a while, but I find it not overwhelmingly useful. Mine fell on my lap during the period of intense measurements and temperature logs & graphs on up to 6 points on the inside and outside of the Londinium I. That was a remarkable time and most unspectacular because the outcome was that all is fine anyway and the briefest of cleaning flushes after a shot prevents any unplanned fall or rise of temperature, of which the machine would recover by itself anyway.
More useful than the SCACE is a little probe in the puck but working with that is less easy because you have to make sure the puck is not broken by the probe. The SCACE is much easier but then also a bit less accurate. The probe of it is above the plasic "puck" so it leaves one guessing at what happens to the coffee in the puck if there was a real puck.
Unless you are using the same bean for months on end...and even that will change with the crop's season...its like chasing the same moving target anyway.
Again...maybe I'm being a simpleton on this issue.
I certainly appreciate the work you did during that period of time. It may not have produced any revolutionary outcomes, but it did put to rest a lot of whimsical theories. I tend to pull my shots somewhat tight, and therefore I can easily cause the machine to stall. Fortunately, however, a quick flush has always been part of my routine so it has never been an issue.
The LI is such a simple machine, and in truth, espresso is a simple process. It is really quite beautiful.
If an extraction comes out too hot, you can taste it and some shots that are officially not hot enough can taste delicious all the same.
On my machine, since I have all the equimpent anyway, I can know when the group is above 84ºC that it has warmed up sufficiently and when it goes above 90ºC in warmer weather I may have to turn down the p-stat a bit.
If a shot comes out beautifully, an even flow from the naked porfafilter, somewhat less than a gram per second and not too slow, and it lookes nicely flecked in the cup and it tastes wonderful, than a temperature measurement will also tell you that it went well but that will be superfluous.
Extensive temp measurements on an open machine are useless as the machine is normally not open, and a series of measurements using a Scace device is equally useless as it will tell you how wonderfully you can heat up a piece of plastic.
Measuring with old beans that are so-so is also useless.
Pulling and tasting a few hundred espresso's over a few months teaches you a lot!
From Reiss' blog about the IMS B68 2T 26,5 ridgeless order. I already have this basket since a while and I can confirm this is the best basket one can possibly get for the L1. Let Reiss confirm that pretty soon
Regards
Martin
I'm looking forward to it!
I really enjoy the Reneka filter. I use it for "singles" , dosing around 14 grams.
Wonderful Crema and taste.
For doubles I use IMS 26.5.
Shame as I was really looking forward to using it!
I'm curious: What company did you purchase it from?
EDIT: Espresso Services have offered me a refund or replacement, even emailing me on a UK Bank Holiday! Top service.
Thanks for reporting this! I had all but forgotten I have that basket too. I will play with it along your 'recipe', using 14g and grinding a bit finer than I normally do. The finer 'mesh' of the filter does allow a slower extraction than one would normally get with such a wide bottom. How much espresso do you get in the cup, a shot of 20g?
I had good experiments with lower doses too 12-12.5g.
Will report after this weekend (too much caffeine...)
This morning I used 14g in the Reneka, pulled 30g of espresso, got 8.6% TDS which corresponds with 19.10% extraction. Tasted good too, will next try unwashed Costa Rican beans, pulling away the shot at the 26.3g as suggested by the VST app and see what that reads like:
'Hi Aaron
I have checked and all the baskets we have from our supplier are like this.
I have refunded the basket and cost of return postage to your account.
Regards'
So I would advise against ordering from them until they sort this out.
For reference these are pictures of the brand new basket i received, I have checked with other owners of IMS baskets and they all received pristine ones.
http://imgur.com/ZrMhpgN
http://imgur.com/dtQtSUT