Aaron Bhavsar post=3655 wrote: I sent my dodgy basket back to espresso services for a replacement as I was unhappy with it and this is the response I got
'Hi Aaron
I have checked and all the baskets we have from our supplier are like this.
I have refunded the basket and cost of return postage to your account.
Regards'
So I would advise against ordering from them until they sort this out.
For reference these are pictures of the brand new basket i received, I have checked with other owners of IMS baskets and they all received pristine ones.
At least you received a refund for your return shipping! Parts Guru refused, even though they sent me the wrong baskets (I indeed ordered the correct baskets), to reimburse me for the return shipping!
I did notice, FWIW/FYI, the IMS baskets do not have the heft and visual high quality appearance of my VST baskets.
Aaron Bhavsar post=3655 wrote: I sent my dodgy basket back to espresso services for a replacement as I was unhappy with it and this is the response I got
'Hi Aaron
I have checked and all the baskets we have from our supplier are like this.
I have refunded the basket and cost of return postage to your account.
Regards'
So I would advise against ordering from them until they sort this out.
For reference these are pictures of the brand new basket i received, I have checked with other owners of IMS baskets and they all received pristine ones.
It's a premium precision basket, I expect way better than that! I'd happily let the odd blemish go but this was appalling as soon as i took it out of the box. I've got a few Londinium stock baskets lying around here and they are all much better quality.
Bella Barista have the basket, have confirmed theirs are scratch free and are cheaper too, so I have ordered from them instead.
I've got two ims baskets and a new one on the way from "espresso services", and three VST baskets, and I have never examined any of them other than to hold the perforated holes up to the light for a couple of seconds, or vaguely look at the shape.
And if I did, without my glasses on, I wouldn't have seen any blemishes anyway.
Anyway, good to know that BB have sorted you out, 'cos they are worth trying.
Nice! I still often use the scale and just recently brought the lab glass with me from a trip into Poland. There's a shop in Poznan with lots of material for people who brew their own alcohol and that's where I bought these.
Reiss Gunson post=3714 wrote: when you say you have to grind finer, relative to what other basket?
I am referring to the ridged IMS basket that I gave you Reiss...
Is it supposed to be the same basket without a ridge?
I just had a reason to make three cups of coffee (guests), and I loaded three portafilters, with the three IMS baskets that I have, and the two ridgeless ones ran perfectly, with a dry puck, the third one was with the ridged basket and the pour was far longer than usual...
...Obviously, I have tightened the grind and now my ridged basket is out of sync...
The new basket looks the very same as the other basket I gave you, only not as high sided, so it has the distinctive bowl shaped bottom, and fairly straight sides. The ridged one, though the same size as the new one, is a completely different design.
No, not at all The ridged basket has a slight curved tapering near the base The ridgeless one is straight sided, giving a slightly larger surface area to the base The base of the ridgeless basket is not flat either, but convex, which further increases the surface area of the base From memory I think the needle press die is different btwn the 2 also - this information is disclosed in sufficient detail on the IMS website that you can calculate the total surface area of the holes in the base if you wish All three of the above factors will impact the flow rate
Thanks for calling this afternoon - great to know that the reduced depth of this basket (from 28.5mm down to 24.5mm from memory) ensures the amber nectar no longer flows gracefully outwards on the underside of the naked PF handle before plummeting to the floor
All I have to do is extract mine from Royal Mail on Tuesday it seems
great! it will sit quite low - its a big basket and you really need a 58.50mm tamper as the internal diameter seems to be slightly larger than any other basket I've tried
Reiss Gunson post=3726 wrote: great! it will sit quite low - its a big basket and you really need a 58.50mm tamper as the internal diameter seems to be slightly larger than any other basket I've tried
I noticed the coffee was lower..
As far as the tamper is concerned, the Londinium one seems to be OK, you need a little bit of wiggle room to nutate effectively, anyway.
just collected my IMS B68 2T H26.5 E (ES11136) from the Royal Mail depot brought it back here and started pulling shots with it
stephen jenner is correct, the water passes through the puck faster than the same grind & dose on the ridged IMS B70 2T H26.5 M (ES11231)
i left the grind unchanged and increased the timer on the K10 fresh by 0.2s to give a dose of 18g, and this slowed things up enough to satisfy the 27/27 rule of thumb that i advocate
i haven't got time to run more tests between these two baskets right now, but if i could only afford to buy one basket i would buy the ES11136 without hesitation
i like the ES11231 a lot, as you know, but on the evidence of the 6 shots I've just pulled now i think the ES11136 is significantly better, and i am very surprised about that as i expected them to be very similar, almost indistinguishable
instead they produce very different tastes in the cup. the ES11136 is making the huge hopper of colombian i have in the K10 fresh at the moment taste very very good indeed - a clarity and sweetness that is remarkably greater than i have ever achieved with the ES11231, and the ES11231 is an exceptionally good basket to start with - a level of sweetness and clarity i have only previously experienced with this coffee on the EK43
the ES11136 has the added benefit of being ridgeless, which is nice too, at least for a domestic environment
let me reiterate my earlier warning; do not buy the IMS B70 2T H28.5 E (ES11232) if you plan to use it with the LONDINIUM bottomless PF. yes it does fit in, but it sits 2mm lower than the ES11136, and this is sufficient for the crema (assuming you are using a decent roast and have the L1 correctly set up) to bridge the gap to the bottomless portafilter, and then run around the bottom of the PF and out along the underside of the wenge handle and onto the floor!
I have returned to using the IMS B70 2T H26.5 M (ES11231) ridged basket. The IMS B70 2T H26.5 M (ES11231) that I received looks a bit distorted at the bottom, and I also found it less consistent... Where I can be satisfied with the pour from the ridged basket most of the time, the new one seems to be bit of a law unto itself.
I mostly drink my coffee with milk, so I am not up to scratch on distinguishing between one basket and another as espresso, so others may disagree.
It is still more user friendly than the VST baskets though, so in my view, it is not a wasted purchase, it is in my single spout portafilter now.
My IMS B70 2T H28.5 E (ES11232) is in my double spout portafilter, and it works fine for big doses (20g and over).
Reiss Gunson post=3735 wrote: i left the grind unchanged and increased the timer on the K10 fresh by 0.2s to give a dose of 18g, and this slowed things up enough to satisfy the 27/27 rule of thumb that i advocate
Reiss, maybe the different results are more due to slightly larger dose and coarser grind than the basket itself ?
Reiss Gunson post=3735 wrote: instead they produce very different tastes in the cup. the ES11136 is making the huge hopper of colombian i have in the K10 fresh at the moment taste very very good indeed - a clarity and sweetness that is remarkably greater than i have ever achieved with the ES11231, and the ES11231 is an exceptionally good basket to start with - a level of sweetness and clarity i have only previously experienced with this coffee on the EK43
It's worth trying a finer grind and a smaller dose and see if it still tastes the same.
yes, i suspect you are exactly right (as usual ) - i just haven't got much time to play at the moment
just back from a 6hr round trip on the road and i was thinking about that - i need to up the dose to 18g on the ridged basket and ease off the grind, which is evidenced by the fact that i had some water on the top of the puck upon releasing the PF
FWIW, i think this scenario highlights the usefulness of the 27:27 rule of thumb - they both ran at 27:27 - yet one was divine and one was very ordinary. complying with 27:27 gives you a frame of reference as you try different doses, e.g. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and adjust the grind to maintain compliance with 27:27. without 27:27 as a rule of thumb you have no reference point to help you
this kind of play is of course hideously heavy on bean consumption with a K10 fresh
having said all that, this is a straight sided basket that just worked for me from the first shot - not one spritzer and nicely centred pours every time so far. i have become a firm advocate of nutating too
the other thing i note with the IMS baskets is my micrometer for measuring bore size indicates they are much more tightly grouped than any other precision basket i have used - this will be immediately apparent when you come to tamper - if you have a number of baskets from the same manufacturer all sold as being of a common bore size, yet your tamper slops around in some and is so tight it won't even fit into others. this does not occur with any of the IMS baskets i have purchased to date - perhaps I've just been lucky, but i can't say it for other brands i have in my collection
I just cutnpasted the reference at the end of your last comment:
let me reiterate my earlier warning; do not buy the IMS B70 2T H28.5 E (ES11232) if you plan to use it with the LONDINIUM bottomless PF. yes it does fit in, but it sits 2mm lower than the ES11136, and this is sufficient for the crema (assuming you are using a decent roast and have the L1 correctly set up) to bridge the gap to the bottomless portafilter, and then run around the bottom of the PF and out along the underside of the wenge handle and onto the floor!"
But to make it clearer, I mean the one that you don't like.
Interesting there is quite a bit of difference between the B70 and the B68. The B68 has a greater perforated area (49mm v 44mm) with more holes (715 v 641) and a wider gap between holes (1.73mm v 1.5mm). The hole diameter is the same at 0.30mm. So in short they are not just subtlety different but substantially different baskets. From these stats it is not a surprise that the B68 runs quicker.
So as alluded to by Reiss and Kfir above to get a fair comparison you would have to try a couple of different doses and grind levels and see how it stacks up then. I suspect the B68 performs better at the higher end of the volume range. But that is just a guess.
My thanks to Reiss who does this work for us which we sponge off.
Reiss Gunson post=3742 wrote: ok, so you mean a 28.5, rather than 26.5, that makes sense - that is a B70
the 26.5 version is only available in B68, as far as i can see
The other way round: the 28,5 is only available in B70 as far as I can see.
Gino Magnottapost=3744 wrote: Interesting there is quite a bit of difference between the B70 and the B68. The B68 has a greater perforated area (49mm v 44mm) with mo......
I have been experimenting with some darker roasts, and to be honest I'm quite content in the 14-15g. I've been using the B70 24.5 basket, and it certainly requires a finer grind than the OEM basket. I can't say I've seen much of a difference with the darker beans, but when I've switched in some lighter roasts I have noticed more fruit in the cup. This is certain.
I still find it interesting everyone is so eager to updose. At the end of the day, my favorite shots are still the post-dinner singles I'm pulling with 8g IN/12g OUT!
hi salvatore my motivation/interest in pushing the IMS baskets is they provide a strong defence to the view held by some that you can't updose with a lever machine these 2 baskets prove in the cup that you can certainly dose to 21g and get a fantastic shot in your cup it has taken me a while to find these baskets, but the wait has been worth it i agree that low doses on levers are also excellent, but my interest is primarily in rebutting commonly held misconceptions about what lever machines can & can't do
I never doubt your tenacity to experiment! I agree each basket has a place, and by having a variety at one's disposal it opens the door to more options and choices, both with beans and roast.
The machine can take whatever we throw at her, this I know!
I have been using a 21g EPNW basket and a VST 22g ever since getting the L-I and I dose them to between 19-20g, maybe a bit more, and they work great! At 18g they lose something, like the thick creamy shots.
Comments
At least you received a refund for your return shipping! Parts Guru refused, even though they sent me the wrong baskets (I indeed ordered the correct baskets), to reimburse me for the return shipping!
I did notice, FWIW/FYI, the IMS baskets do not have the heft and visual high quality appearance of my VST baskets.
Hi Aaron...
Not being funny, but what are you intending to use the basket for, making coffee... or as jewellery?
They are very good baskets.
Honest!
Bella Barista have the basket, have confirmed theirs are scratch free and are cheaper too, so I have ordered from them instead.
And if I did, without my glasses on, I wouldn't have seen any blemishes anyway.
Anyway, good to know that BB have sorted you out, 'cos they are worth trying.
Nice work, loving the pictures (as always).
Kfir.
Thanks! The 100ml Boro3.3 glass makes a shot look good too ;-)
https://londiniumespresso.com/blog/another-ims-competizione-basket-is-on-its-way
First impression is that a finer grind is needed, the Rwandan started to flow much quicker than on the previous basket.
What do other users think?
when you say you have to grind finer, relative to what other basket?
I am referring to the ridged IMS basket that I gave you Reiss...
Is it supposed to be the same basket without a ridge?
I just had a reason to make three cups of coffee (guests), and I loaded three portafilters, with the three IMS baskets that I have, and the two ridgeless ones ran perfectly, with a dry puck, the third one was with the ridged basket and the pour was far longer than usual...
...Obviously, I have tightened the grind and now my ridged basket is out of sync...
The new basket looks the very same as the other basket I gave you, only not as high sided, so it has the distinctive bowl shaped bottom, and fairly straight sides. The ridged one, though the same size as the new one, is a completely different design.
No, not at all
The ridged basket has a slight curved tapering near the base
The ridgeless one is straight sided, giving a slightly larger surface area to the base
The base of the ridgeless basket is not flat either, but convex, which further increases the surface area of the base
From memory I think the needle press die is different btwn the 2 also - this information is disclosed in sufficient detail on the IMS website that you can calculate the total surface area of the holes in the base if you wish
All three of the above factors will impact the flow rate
Thanks for calling this afternoon - great to know that the reduced depth of this basket (from 28.5mm down to 24.5mm from memory) ensures the amber nectar no longer flows gracefully outwards on the underside of the naked PF handle before plummeting to the floor
All I have to do is extract mine from Royal Mail on Tuesday it seems
The shot looked amazing, but 18g seems to sit quite low in the basket.
Need a few more days to nail it I think, as I just changed coffee as well.
As far as the tamper is concerned, the Londinium one seems to be OK, you need a little bit of wiggle room to nutate effectively, anyway.
better to stay a bit lower as it's a lever, or if say the roasters recipe is 18g in on a pump machine do you then dose 18?
I've run 21g in the ridged 26.5 IMS basket you have, and that dose did not present any issues either
stephen jenner is correct, the water passes through the puck faster than the same grind & dose on the ridged IMS B70 2T H26.5 M (ES11231)
i left the grind unchanged and increased the timer on the K10 fresh by 0.2s to give a dose of 18g, and this slowed things up enough to satisfy the 27/27 rule of thumb that i advocate
i haven't got time to run more tests between these two baskets right now, but if i could only afford to buy one basket i would buy the ES11136 without hesitation
i like the ES11231 a lot, as you know, but on the evidence of the 6 shots I've just pulled now i think the ES11136 is significantly better, and i am very surprised about that as i expected them to be very similar, almost indistinguishable
instead they produce very different tastes in the cup. the ES11136 is making the huge hopper of colombian i have in the K10 fresh at the moment taste very very good indeed - a clarity and sweetness that is remarkably greater than i have ever achieved with the ES11231, and the ES11231 is an exceptionally good basket to start with - a level of sweetness and clarity i have only previously experienced with this coffee on the EK43
the ES11136 has the added benefit of being ridgeless, which is nice too, at least for a domestic environment
let me reiterate my earlier warning; do not buy the IMS B70 2T H28.5 E (ES11232) if you plan to use it with the LONDINIUM bottomless PF. yes it does fit in, but it sits 2mm lower than the ES11136, and this is sufficient for the crema (assuming you are using a decent roast and have the L1 correctly set up) to bridge the gap to the bottomless portafilter, and then run around the bottom of the PF and out along the underside of the wenge handle and onto the floor!
I mostly drink my coffee with milk, so I am not up to scratch on distinguishing between one basket and another as espresso, so others may disagree.
It is still more user friendly than the VST baskets though, so in my view, it is not a wasted purchase, it is in my single spout portafilter now.
My IMS B70 2T H28.5 E (ES11232) is in my double spout portafilter, and it works fine for big doses (20g and over).
BTW: I dose at 18g.
Thanks!
Reiss, maybe the different results are more due to slightly larger dose and coarser grind than the basket itself ?
It's worth trying a finer grind and a smaller dose and see if it still tastes the same.
Kfir.
yes, i suspect you are exactly right (as usual
just back from a 6hr round trip on the road and i was thinking about that - i need to up the dose to 18g on the ridged basket and ease off the grind, which is evidenced by the fact that i had some water on the top of the puck upon releasing the PF
FWIW, i think this scenario highlights the usefulness of the 27:27 rule of thumb - they both ran at 27:27 - yet one was divine and one was very ordinary. complying with 27:27 gives you a frame of reference as you try different doses, e.g. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and adjust the grind to maintain compliance with 27:27. without 27:27 as a rule of thumb you have no reference point to help you
this kind of play is of course hideously heavy on bean consumption with a K10 fresh
having said all that, this is a straight sided basket that just worked for me from the first shot - not one spritzer and nicely centred pours every time so far. i have become a firm advocate of nutating too
the other thing i note with the IMS baskets is my micrometer for measuring bore size indicates they are much more tightly grouped than any other precision basket i have used - this will be immediately apparent when you come to tamper - if you have a number of baskets from the same manufacturer all sold as being of a common bore size, yet your tamper slops around in some and is so tight it won't even fit into others. this does not occur with any of the IMS baskets i have purchased to date - perhaps I've just been lucky, but i can't say it for other brands i have in my collection
r.
I just cutnpasted the reference at the end of your last comment:
But to make it clearer, I mean the one that you don't like.
So as alluded to by Reiss and Kfir above to get a fair comparison you would have to try a couple of different doses and grind levels and see how it stacks up then. I suspect the B68 performs better at the higher end of the volume range. But that is just a guess.
My thanks to Reiss who does this work for us which we sponge off.
The other way round: the 28,5 is only available in B70 as far as I can see.
[ES code] [Cups no.] [Capacity] [Filter edge] [Filter body] [Filter height] [# holes]
ES11228........1................6/8 g.........70 mm.........60 mm.........24.5 mm......177
ES11229........1................7/9 g.........70 mm.........60 mm.........26.5 mm......253
ES11230........2............12/18 g.........70 mm.........60 mm.........24.5 mm......641
ES11231........2............14/20 g.........70 mm.........60 mm.........26.5 mm......641
ES11232.......2/3..........18/22 g.........70 mm.........60 mm.........28.5 mm......715
ES11226........1................6/9 g.........68 mm.........60 mm.........24.5 mm......253
ES11225........2............12/18 g.........68 mm.........60 mm.........24.5 mm......641
ES11136........2/3..........16/22 g.........68 mm.........60 mm.........26.5 mm......715
So Gino compared B68 at 26,5 and B70 at 26,5.
M
I still find it interesting everyone is so eager to updose. At the end of the day, my favorite shots are still the post-dinner singles I'm pulling with 8g IN/12g OUT!
my motivation/interest in pushing the IMS baskets is they provide a strong defence to the view held by some that you can't updose with a lever machine
these 2 baskets prove in the cup that you can certainly dose to 21g and get a fantastic shot in your cup
it has taken me a while to find these baskets, but the wait has been worth it
i agree that low doses on levers are also excellent, but my interest is primarily in rebutting commonly held misconceptions about what lever machines can & can't do
The machine can take whatever we throw at her, this I know!