The other has not yet been anointed by a WBC, yet curiously has burrs that have 20% greater circumference (cool runnings), a twin fan active cooling system, the wiper you have identified, the bag shaker (invaluable!), a far better engineered bag clip, a hinged hopper lid so you aren't taking it on and off all the time
However, will the taste in the cup equal or beat the acclaimed EK43?
I don't know, which is why I bought it; to find out for myself
I'll be in no rush to reach a definitive answer as the EK43 completely redefined espresso for me, so the bar has been set very high, let's be absolutely clear about that
My biggest fear was that the retention would have been unacceptably high. That already seems to be a non issue as it is consistently coming in at less than 0.2g
So now we are into the tricky subjective area of taste. It simply needs hundreds of shots before you can build up a meaningful assessment
I, et al, very much appreciate getting intel on these grinders Reiss! Although both grinders are way out of my budget and counter space constraints it is still very valuable to learn about them from someone I trust for accurate and non-commercial interest/biased data.
its all gone a bit quiet on this, but please don't fear the worst i am enjoying the R120 immensely, it easily surpasses any other grinder i have used as an overall product the two grinders are similar in that both use large diameter, flat burrs, turning at 1500rpm the only difference is one burr set is mounted vertically (EK43) and the other is horizontal (R120) as a result the taste very similar - hardly surprising that said i have only run a small amount of coffee (<1Kg) through the R120, so i would expect the taste in the cup to improve after 40Kg or so of coffee has been run through<br />unfortunately i have had to pack the R120 away for the moment as it is not a priority one task, but i will take a video clip and post it as soon as i get a chance but in all other respects it is streets ahead of the EK43 refinement, design, etc, etc the R120 is designed in the last decade and this is immediately apparent from the moment you open the box the sensory experience of the on/off switch, the active twin fan cooling system, the bag shaker system, the refined sound the grinder makes when in use... the list goes on and on
but for the meantime i consider the taste to be too similar to say that one is better than the other - if anything i would say the EK43 has a slight edge at the moment, and i think it is daft to make a declaration until i am in a position to roast coffee again and then i can dump 40Kg of coffee through it and see where the taste has settled out at so yes, the R120 is a superb grinder that would satisfy the most demanding customer and i would thoroughly recommend it as a significantly superior product overall, but i am not in a position to say it beats the EK43 on taste just yet, but if you can bear with me for a few more weeks we will get a result on that too r.
Perhaps I will be able to help out sooner, I have pulled some initial shots from my r120 and like reiss have been very impressed with the function and build quality of it, I own an ek43 as well and am running an event on the 20th which will have them side by side, as well as many other Titan class grinders, the refractometer will be out as will blind tasting of results, but more importantly mine will have 50 kgs run through it next week so both grinders will be fairly similar in bedding in time.
The ek43 is an amazing grinder in the cup, however the build quality leaves a lot to be desired, it is a bit of a tractor, albeit an exceptionally competent on in the cup. The two are leagues apart in this respect as the r120 just feels so well put together, solid, excellent adjustment mechanism, quiet ( or at least it will be when I take the bag shaker off) accurate and good in the cup. I will be very honest when it comes to my final evaluation of this beast at the event.
Actually with these grinders as many as I like, as swapping between beans is so easy, with near zero retention grinders. I currently have 4 beans on the go all single origin, however only have the EK currently until the r120 is seasoned properly
That is a pretty recommendation for the EK43! Tractors are easy to maintain, a Lamborghini is not and that Compact looks like a very fancy sports model :-) The differences between vertical and flat burr will become apparent after you get some time to play.
I really like the fact that switching between beans is such an easy adjustment. My Kony is not bad for that but the retention in the grinding chamber is hideous!
The ek43 really is a tractor though 30 years old with nothing new but mr pergers use, that said it makes a great coffee, but I think the r120 will as well and have the same very low retention, but this time due to innovation not gravity, I only really care about what the resulting shot tastes like so time will tell
Has anyone priced out an EK43 stand? The part that holds the motor off the bench??? It would be nice to have one to cut up for making a lowered EK43 and not chop the OEM one.
Mr Hyde was about to build one to exactly this specification with the short stand, however on speaking with Mahlkoenig they confirmed it would completely invalidate any warranty on the grinder and it was decided not to proceed.
Stephen Sweeney post=4170 wrote: Has anyone priced out an EK43 stand? The part that holds the motor off the bench??? It would be nice to have one to cut up for making a lowered EK43 and not chop the OEM one.
The easiest way to do it is to use a santos base these grinders can usually be bought second hand on well known auction sites
So been playing with the r120 for the past week, 50 kgs through it so beautifully seasoned, removed the bag shaker so no lovely and quiet, far quieter that the ek43. My first impressions are very positive, lovely clean shots, almost zero retention .1g beautiful grind consistency and most importantly shots of espresso up their with the ek43
i expect the R100 gives a similar taste in the cup to the R120
the retention on the R100 is likely to be greater than the R120 (which is running an average of less than 0.2g in my ownership of the R120) as the R100 does not have the mechanised stainless steel wire sweeper rotating inside the exit chute
i expect you could address this manually by using the bottle brush that they supply the grinders with for cleaning the inside of the exit chute
on the R120 they advise to use the brush once a month
Reiss, so the R-120 is the only one out of that series of Compak grinders to have that chute cleaning feature, good to know.
Do you know if the rest of that particular line have any other differences other than motor size and burr size? What I am trying to discern is that the burr adjustment, chute discharge and hopper feed to the grinding chamber are all the same basic design, with one being just smaller than the other.
the R140 has the same feature, but it is only available with a 3 phase motor i am told (despite the specifications page and the parts diagrams on the Compak site suggesting that there is a 240V/1P option available - the marvels of the coffee world i guess), so i opted for the R120 as very few prospective customers are going to have 3 phase sitting there for a grinder, or in the alternative, be willing to put it in.
the compak website details a wealth of information for each product they offer if you take a look; for example for the R100 -
in particular i draw your attention toward the bottom of this page to the section entitled, 'Technical data files', and of course the videos if the english language voice over audio doesn't make you grind your teeth - the one on changing the burrs is perhaps the pick of them
The R80 seems a lot of more user friendly than the Godzilla R120. Size, weight and price wise. So, what's up with this grinder? How it taste? How much is the retention?
well, i don't know, i think the R80 may disappoint if you are looking for the ultimate taste as the circumference is quite a bit less than the R100, which i think is probably a happy medium between the R80 and the R120 and by way of reference the Mahlkoenig EK43 has 98mm flat burrs, so it is 'in the ball park' as the americans say
i haven't tried an R80, or R100 for the that matter and the Compak factory won't ship us any of these before late September now as the July order is closed and August is at the beach
the shot from the R120 is not as sweet as the EK43 - on that score the EK43 is a clear winner i think (i am referring to an EK43 using the coffee burr set, not the turkish burr set)
however, the R120 does offer exceptional clarity, which i think is superior to the EK43, and that is saying something for those of you who are familiar with the shots from the EK43 (again, i am referring to an EK43 using the coffee burr set, not the turkish burr set)
i am also of the view that the R120 has superior body in the shot than the EK43
i expect it will be a continuum and the larger the diameter you go to the better clarity becomes
retention on the R120 is less than 0.2g, but i suspect your question was enquiring of the retention of the R80, which i simply don't know, but it won't be horrendous as the internal design of the grind pathway is the same as the R120 as far as i can tell, but without the mechanised rotating wire sweeper in the exit chute
Superior body, less sweet but more clarity. The granulometry must be different than the EK43 for sure.
Pity you can't try the other models now. I've spoken with a friend at Compak here, they're testing the Retail models but there will no news until september. So I understand that Compak won't ship you the grinders these months...
Comments
The other has not yet been anointed by a WBC, yet curiously has burrs that have 20% greater circumference (cool runnings), a twin fan active cooling system, the wiper you have identified, the bag shaker (invaluable!), a far better engineered bag clip, a hinged hopper lid so you aren't taking it on and off all the time
However, will the taste in the cup equal or beat the acclaimed EK43?
I don't know, which is why I bought it; to find out for myself
I'll be in no rush to reach a definitive answer as the EK43 completely redefined espresso for me, so the bar has been set very high, let's be absolutely clear about that
My biggest fear was that the retention would have been unacceptably high. That already seems to be a non issue as it is consistently coming in at less than 0.2g
So now we are into the tricky subjective area of taste. It simply needs hundreds of shots before you can build up a meaningful assessment
Kind regards
Reiss
I was contemplating a cut down EK43 but it appears waiting to see how the Compak line works out is worth the wait :-)
Good luck on the search for a new roastery in NZ.
Thanks again!
Cheers!
i am enjoying the R120 immensely, it easily surpasses any other grinder i have used as an overall product
the two grinders are similar in that both use large diameter, flat burrs, turning at 1500rpm
the only difference is one burr set is mounted vertically (EK43) and the other is horizontal (R120)
as a result the taste very similar - hardly surprising
that said i have only run a small amount of coffee (<1Kg) through the R120, so i would expect the taste in the cup to improve after 40Kg or so of coffee has been run through<br />unfortunately i have had to pack the R120 away for the moment as it is not a priority one task, but i will take a video clip and post it as soon as i get a chance
but in all other respects it is streets ahead of the EK43 refinement, design, etc, etc
the R120 is designed in the last decade and this is immediately apparent from the moment you open the box
the sensory experience of the on/off switch, the active twin fan cooling system, the bag shaker system, the refined sound the grinder makes when in use... the list goes on and on
but for the meantime i consider the taste to be too similar to say that one is better than the other - if anything i would say the EK43 has a slight edge at the moment, and i think it is daft to make a declaration until i am in a position to roast coffee again and then i can dump 40Kg of coffee through it and see where the taste has settled out at
so yes, the R120 is a superb grinder that would satisfy the most demanding customer and i would thoroughly recommend it as a significantly superior product overall, but i am not in a position to say it beats the EK43 on taste just yet, but if you can bear with me for a few more weeks we will get a result on that too
r.
The ek43 is an amazing grinder in the cup, however the build quality leaves a lot to be desired, it is a bit of a tractor, albeit an exceptionally competent on in the cup. The two are leagues apart in this respect as the r120 just feels so well put together, solid, excellent adjustment mechanism, quiet ( or at least it will be when I take the bag shaker off) accurate and good in the cup. I will be very honest when it comes to my final evaluation of this beast at the event.
How many different beans do you have on the bench at any one time?
I really like the fact that switching between beans is such an easy adjustment. My Kony is not bad for that but the retention in the grinding chamber is hideous!
I'm still trying to organise to make it that Sunday...
The easiest way to do it is to use a santos base these grinders can usually be bought second hand on well known auction sites
I noticed that there seems to be a bunch of those in the UK. Why?
Anybody knows if the compak r100 gives similar results to the r120?
What about the grind retention on the r100?
Regards
Martin
i expect the R100 gives a similar taste in the cup to the R120
the retention on the R100 is likely to be greater than the R120 (which is running an average of less than 0.2g in my ownership of the R120) as the R100 does not have the mechanised stainless steel wire sweeper rotating inside the exit chute
i expect you could address this manually by using the bottle brush that they supply the grinders with for cleaning the inside of the exit chute
on the R120 they advise to use the brush once a month
best
reiss.
Do you know if the rest of that particular line have any other differences other than motor size and burr size? What I am trying to discern is that the burr adjustment, chute discharge and hopper feed to the grinding chamber are all the same basic design, with one being just smaller than the other.
the compak website details a wealth of information for each product they offer if you take a look; for example for the R100 -
Compak R100 grinder product page
in particular i draw your attention toward the bottom of this page to the section entitled, 'Technical data files', and of course the videos if the english language voice over audio doesn't make you grind your teeth - the one on changing the burrs is perhaps the pick of them
well, i don't know, i think the R80 may disappoint if you are looking for the ultimate taste as the circumference is quite a bit less than the R100, which i think is probably a happy medium between the R80 and the R120 and by way of reference the Mahlkoenig EK43 has 98mm flat burrs, so it is 'in the ball park' as the americans say
i haven't tried an R80, or R100 for the that matter and the Compak factory won't ship us any of these before late September now as the July order is closed and August is at the beach
the shot from the R120 is not as sweet as the EK43 - on that score the EK43 is a clear winner i think (i am referring to an EK43 using the coffee burr set, not the turkish burr set)
however, the R120 does offer exceptional clarity, which i think is superior to the EK43, and that is saying something for those of you who are familiar with the shots from the EK43 (again, i am referring to an EK43 using the coffee burr set, not the turkish burr set)
i am also of the view that the R120 has superior body in the shot than the EK43
i expect it will be a continuum and the larger the diameter you go to the better clarity becomes
retention on the R120 is less than 0.2g, but i suspect your question was enquiring of the retention of the R80, which i simply don't know, but it won't be horrendous as the internal design of the grind pathway is the same as the R120 as far as i can tell, but without the mechanised rotating wire sweeper in the exit chute
kind regards
reiss.
Pity you can't try the other models now. I've spoken with a friend at Compak here, they're testing the Retail models but there will no news until september. So I understand that Compak won't ship you the grinders these months...
Let's see.
Thanks!!