What about a Londinium grinder?

Martin Fortin

Hello,
I am wondering what could be the next step in the Londinium adventure. It seems to me that the grinder would be the answer. The EK43 seems to be the buzz right now but the price tag and the overall size do not seem appropriate for the home in my opinion. So I started this thread to see what would be your wish list for a perfect grinder for your Londinium.
Regards
Martin

Reiss Gunson

hi martin
i think it highly unlikely that we would build a grinder, but having said that i hope to have some interesting grinder news by the end of this week
reiss

Martin Fortin

Hi Reiss,
I was just dreaming and trying to open a brainstorming session...
Regards
Martin

Reiss Gunson

well i can add some things to get it started

1. must have an electric motor
2. must have zero retention
3. must have its own burr set - i.e. must not be borrowed from a grinder already in the marketplace
4. must be fast

Stephen Jenner

Reiss Gunson post=3634 wrote: well i can add some things to get it started

1. must have an electric motor
2. must have zero retention
3. must have its own burr set - i.e. must not be borrowed from a grinder already in the marketplace
4. must be fast

5. must not be a chinese copy
6. may be HGCD 10 Espresso/Filter Coffee Grinder?????

Reiss Gunson

please excuse my ignorance, but what does HGCD stand for stephen?

Stephen Jenner

Reiss Gunson post=3636 wrote: please excuse my ignorance, but what does HGCD stand for stephen?

Well this...






But obviously not....

Not another word from me...

Honest guv.

Reiss Gunson

ah, is that an aged mahlkoenig?

Stephen Jenner

I can't find much info, I think it is Turkish...

100mm flat burrs.






This is a rough EK3...

Reiss Gunson

lets see if we can trump it...taste in the cup, taste in the cup! :woohoo:

Stephen Jenner

I was joking...

As I said...

Schtumm!

Reiss Gunson

we will have the grinder we hope can match or equal the taste of an EK43 at the end of this month, May

i am really looking forward to posting about it here

it may not work, it may fail miserably short, but for a number of reasons i think it is well worth investigating

one of the things i have learnt in the coffee game is there is only one way to determine if product 'X' meets your needs - buy it & see for yourself

hopefully we can build a track record such that some of the products we review here can be of some use to you in your pre-purchase decision making

Unknown

I am very interested in this quest for the perfect grinder, sort of like finding a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow :-)

Reiss Gunson

the EK43 has developed a long waiting list, and the price has mysteriously risen by about a third, depending on where you go - the price of 'celebrity' endorsement

i love the clarity and the sweetness that the EK43 produces, but i thought it might be worth running some experiments

Mark Pitchford

I'll certainly be keeping my eye on this thread - I'm due an upgrade!

J.J. Cisneros

Reiss Gunson post=3652 wrote: we will have the grinder we hope can match or equal the taste of an EK43 at the end of this month, May

i am really looking forward to posting about it here

it may not work, it may fail miserably short, but for a number of reasons i think it is well worth investigating

one of the things i have learnt in the coffee game is there is only one way to determine if product 'X' meets your needs - buy it & see for yourself

hopefully we can build a track record such that some of the products we review here can be of some use to you in your pre-purchase decision making

Any news about that mysterious grinder??? :huh:

Frans Goddijn

J.J. Cisneros post=3772 wrote: Any news about that mysterious grinder?

I checked and it's not the end of this month yet ;-)

(Reiss said "we will have the grinder we hope can match or equal the taste of an EK43 at the end of this month, May")

Stephen Jenner

J.J. Cisneros

That's how wbc competitions should be. Wanna show your skillz? Get the pestle and mortar.

Unknown

Ha! I like the mortar and pestle concept and feel it need to go along with pan roasting beans and it would all give you a jolt in the morning along with some exercise :-) BTW, interesting use of rebar!

I prefer using the HG-1 or this,













Maybe Reiss will contract with Terranova to buy his new grinder that he designed and is similar to the VL but addresses all of the maladies of that grinder.

Stephen Jenner

That's very shiny Stephen, are you pleased with the mods?

Unknown

Now it is easy to clean and keep clean, and that is worth a lot to me. As for the flavors, it tones down the real bright flavors that the HG-1, or any conical, can produce. I like its size and those were the 2 reasons I purchased the VL in the first place and Terranova just made the thing work better with a shaft that runs true and less popcorning than the OEM VL. I still use a cap to stop all popcorn and it also makes it even more quiet! I did not get the expensive coatings on the tower, just a smooth satin powder coating with is MUCH EASIER to clean than that crappy wrinkle finish...

Ala in all I like it for a flat burr/hybrid grinder. I will still keep the KONY-E for grinding during dinner parties :-)

J.J. Cisneros

I know that you do not like the VL wrinkle finish... but I love it. Looks and feel "organic" somehow... like a skin or leather but metallic.

So the cap makes the VL more quiet?? I told you this but you said me no!!

Unknown

JJ:

I will measure the decibel difference and you can judge for yourself.

It does not make the grinder a real quiet grinder, and the HG-1 is more quiet for sure. I did not measure the Pharos when I had it so sorry about not providing the comparison with it. It might have been the most quiet. When I get time I will measure the Lido2 and Post the findings here.

HG-1 with 83mm burrs = 82db
HG-1 with 71mm burrs = 80db
Mazzer Kony-E = 89db
VL Post Terranova = 90db with bean popper cap

So how quiet is it? Those measurements are taken with FC roasted beans and the decibel level will vary with the degree of roast.

3db of change is a lot, look it up.

J.J. Cisneros

lol

No need to do this, Steve. The cap still have holes where the noise escapes... So I don't expect too much noise reduction.

Thanks anyway

Martin Fortin

Stephen,
For your sound measurement, make sure you use the scale "A" (closer to human perception than dB SPL) on the sound level meter and the averaging time function (Leq) (peak noise are of no importance). In a perception perspective, it would also be better to measure with the microphone pointing toward the sound source and within 30 cm from your ear.
Regards
Martin

Unknown

I used a db spl meter and placed it at a distance that approximated the distance to my ear. Not sure if the meter averages or not; I will check.

I have used in in cars that I thought to be noisy, particularly on noisy sections of concrete highways. better than 100db with my MINI Cooper on one stretch of road! That was taken at ear level in the car at 65mph.

There is an App for the iPhone that measures sound also but I was not using it at the time.

It would be interesting to measure sound out of the new Mazzer Kold !

Martin Fortin

Stephen,
Using a SPL scale is pointless since it does not correlate to the human perception or to the potential risk of hearing damage (I do not think that grinding coffee is harmful to your ears). If you can measure in the A scale, you will obtain smaller numbers, closer to the human ear sensitivity (human ear is not good with low frequencies and a little more sensitive at 3-4 kHz). The A scale take that into account somewhat.
As for time averaging, make sure to take a 30 second sound sample with stable numbers (avoid taking peak as your final number).
Very interesting comparison.
Regards
Martin

Unknown

I beg to differ. The "A scale" might be preferred in the medical field but any set of numbers that put something into relationship to another, measured in the same manner, is useful.

My iPhone App does average db as well as peak and max (not sure the difference) but I did not use that device. I will next time and just use the average. However I do not roast enough beans to blow through 30 seconds of grinding in each grinder. I will leave that experiment to someone who is more obsessed than myself :-)

J.J. Cisneros

EK users, could you please tell me whats the size of the shots you pull? EK shots must be big like 50 grams or so? Perger talks about shots of 48g which are too large IMO...

Frans Goddijn

Shot volume depends on the machine used, the environment and on the dose, I would think. Do you have a URL for the place where Perger is discussing this with all connected variables?

I do not think a grinder decides how much a certain group can pull.

For instance, my L1 if placed in a corner needs the p-stat set a little lower than if the machine is in the middle of the room due to the radiation of heat, and in a higher p-stat setting, the group fills at a little higher pressure, filling a little more and thus also allowing a slightly higher volume shot. I do not mean to say that one situation is better than another. The same group on an L2 will pull higher volume shots.

I don't think a 27g shot is "better" than one twice the weight/volume.

If I want to prepare two espresso's, I pull two shots.

I could work on a 'Fellini' move and pull 60g shots, but I see no reason. If you want a certain brew ratio, for instance of 30g espresso from 14g of grinds, or 60g espresso from 22g grinds, the same brew ratios can be had at other weights of yield.