Kfir post=7419 wrote: The grinder looks really nice (especially in white), congrats!
From my experience with both the K10 Pro Barista and the K10 fresh I can say that the amount of beans when using a hopper will impact the grind and I strongly recommend to always keep at least 100g+ of beans in the hopper if you want a consistent dose. Do not grind the coffee until the hopper is empty (unless you have strong nerves to try and figure out what went wrong with your shot )
Retention on the K10 fresh was significant, I used to throw at least a double shot every morning to clear the stale grounds from the grind path. Single dosing was not easy since there was always coffee left inside so I can't see the point of doing that with this type of a grinder.
The K10 Pro Barista was much more suited for single dosing, I preferred working with it over the fresh for that purpose.
The acrylic hopper with a weight to push the beans looks like a good solution to minimize the use of a larger hopper with a lot of beans, give it a try...
Enjoy your new grinder. Kfir.
Thanks for your wisdom and the others for their acrylic tube solution. I guess it comes down to two factors. 1. Assuming you dose correctly for your method of grinding (smaller funnel with not a lot of beans and therefore not much weight or a good load of beans in the big hopper), is there any difference in the cup? 2. how you dose?
With the E10, my first grind this morning, came up short and there is now about 100-120gms of beans in the hopper. Very easy to solve with the E10 - just momentarily press the "grind" button and instantly another 1.5 - 2.0gm is in your PF. Any longer press of said button creates more cleanup!
As a weigh the PF before the grind, its easy to wipe away any excess, smooth out using a credit card before tamping. So for me, dosing is not the main issue - purging stale grinds and getting the best extraction is the goal.
So my experiment will be to see if (when using the same beans and similar extraction times) a full weighted hopper or a short hopper with no weight provide different cups. This will be subjective and hopefully within a hour and kilo of beans of each other.
Should there be a difference in favour of the large hopper, what is the weight to be placed on a short hopper to simulate a large one? I think a kilo is at one end of the spectrum. The OE mini hopper has a 58mm mouth and the Londinium Tamps is over 300gm so if the mini hopper is full and the tamper is used, I guess the weight on the beans just above the burrs will be like 2 kgs of beans in the big hopper. More on this later.
Cameron Collins post=7423 wrote: Really liked reading through this thread. Interesting stuff
Did I read somewhere (very vague recollection on my part) that the E10 comes with pre-seasoned burrs or at least burrs that have been treated in someway to mimick in part the effect of seasoning?
Welcome Marian BTW.
One question on the E10, vis the exit chute and worktop mess.
excluding the times when you might over fill the basket and get overflow of grinds from the PF, how do you find the overall cleanliness of your worktop from stray grinds working/living with this machine in day to day use?
Hi Cameron,
Cleanliness has not been a issue but static seems responsible for the grinds near the shute and the extra burst I had to do this morning because the hopper is getting down pushed some grinds to the bench.
While I know OE has PF funnels, a local one which is smaller might fit and broaden the shute catch area to prevent the top bursts when I fall short.
Frans Goddijn post=7421 wrote: I am very interested in the results too! Take your time Trevor to form an opinion, since the new burrs need to get some grinding to do before they perform at their best, and the new routine of working will need to get settled for best results.
Personally I expect the taste results to be comparable, or only subtly different since the HG One is a single dosing device and the new machine is hoppered or will probably work best with a column of beans above the burrs, and maybe discarding one shot at the start of a grinding session to be sure about freshness. The big advantage being the ease of use, speed, convenience, reliability, consistency, not having to weigh beans and set the timer once the machine is dialed in.
Bigger burrs tend to 'win' in comparisons, but there are always so many factors playing a role, the user, the basket, the routine, the tamp et cetera that I think it will not be easy to draw any quick conclusion. In a magazine or a forum "review" when for instance three grinders are "compared" I take the results with a grain of salt as such a test, to do it really well, takes so much time and has so little entertainment value that editors tend to hack their way to some spectacular conclusion illustrated with nice pictures without digging too deep.
Thanks Frans for your postings. If you were here, we would have so much fun again. Got any plans?
The new "Proxima" blend from Adam at littleitalyroasters is on my shopping list. I thought it was very good using the HG1 so a comparison will definitely be worth it.
Yes, working out a simple routine when I keep changing beans is hard so I'm thinking a bit of experimentation will bed the machine down. When I asked about seasoning the burrs on a Compak, the answer was "don't worry, they are already good." so I don't think that's a big concern.
As per a previous post, I will be setting up with a kilo of beans provided by the supplier (no idea of the quality yet) and seeing how larger hoppers, mini hoppers, single dosing compares as soon as all the elements arrive here.
I'm sure it will not find universal agreement, but I'm of the opinion that good grinders need very little, if any, breaking in too
i see mahlkoenig are actually specifying the break in quantity of beans on their website, or perhaps it was a manual i saw, and for a number of their models the break in quantity of beans was specified as zero kilograms
i have people telling me that a grinder like an R120 needs 40Kg of beans to break in the burrs and that instinctively feels wrong to me
a poorly machined burr set will have 'burrs' on it and a break in period will no doubt knock these lumps of, but why not a burr set that is nicely milled and finished? hey, its 2015, it seems within the realms of possibility to me
i could be imagining it, but i don't think my R120 has changed appreciably since i put the first bean in it to be honest
to be fair these big flat burrs are machined quite differently to the smaller ones and have a service life of a think 13,000Kg or so perhaps my comparison is not completely meaningful, but i remain dubious when people quote monster run in bean weights
Reiss Gunson post=7437 wrote: I'm sure it will not find universal agreement, but I'm of the opinion that good grinders need very little, if any, breaking in too
i see mahlkoenig are actually specifying the break in quantity of beans on their website, or perhaps it was a manual i saw, and for a number of their models the break in quantity of beans was specified as zero kilograms
i have people telling me that a grinder like an R120 needs 40Kg of beans to break in the burrs and that instinctively feels wrong to me
a poorly machined burr set will have 'burrs' on it and a break in period will no doubt knock these lumps of, but why not a burr set that is nicely milled and finished? hey, its 2015, it seems within the realms of possibility to me
i could be imagining it, but i don't think my R120 has changed appreciably since i put the first bean in it to be honest
to be fair these big flat burrs are machined quite differently to the smaller ones and have a service life of a think 13,000Kg or so perhaps my comparison is not completely meaningful, but i remain dubious when people quote monster run in bean weights
Thanks for your wisdom and the others for their acrylic tube solution. I guess it comes down to two factors. 1. Assuming you dose correctly for your method of grinding (smaller funnel with not a lot of beans and therefore not much weight or a good load of beans in the big hopper), is there any difference in the cup?
No, less weight can cause a different grind level so when working with a full hopper that goes empty suddenly the extraction will become fast - it can be frustrating sometimes.
2. how you dose?
I don't own the Fresh anymore but I used to fill the small hopper with 400-500g of beans and adjust the grind for double shots (18g in 4.7 seconds), then it was consistent as long I kept purging the stale grounds each morning. Also when the beans reached the minimum level in the hopper (about 100g) I've added more on top of them.
With the E10, my first grind this morning, came up short and there is now about 100-120gms of beans in the hopper. Very easy to solve with the E10 - just momentarily press the "grind" button and instantly another 1.5 - 2.0gm is in your PF. Any longer press of said button creates more cleanup!
Your grinder is new, I am sure it will be more consistent after a few more kilograms of beans
As a weigh the PF before the grind, its easy to wipe away any excess, smooth out using a credit card before tamping. So for me, dosing is not the main issue - purging stale grinds and getting the best extraction is the goal.
So my experiment will be to see if (when using the same beans and similar extraction times) a full weighted hopper or a short hopper with no weight provide different cups. This will be subjective and hopefully within a hour and kilo of beans of each other.
No, but the grind level will change and you probably get a faster extraction.
Should there be a difference in favour of the large hopper, what is the weight to be placed on a short hopper to simulate a large one? I think a kilo is at one end of the spectrum. The OE mini hopper has a 58mm mouth and the Londinium Tamps is over 300gm so if the mini hopper is full and the tamper is used, I guess the weight on the beans just above the burrs will be like 2 kgs of beans in the big hopper. More on this later.
A short hopper full of beans will probably do just fine, the Fresh had a 600g small hopper. If the E10 can take regular Compak hoppers I am sure you will be able to use the small and medium ones without much trouble - just remember not to grind all the beans until the hopper is empty.
As mentioned in a previous post, I was supplied with a kilo of beans from the shop from which I purchased the grinder. The extractions I tried from those beans were OK but in the cup it was flat.
Since the large hopper became empty and the recent purchase of "Proxima" from Adam at LittleItalyRoasters (Frans will remember and Adam sends his regards) are too early to use, I purchased some "Crema" from Jet Black Expresso.
The result (this photo is after taking a sip and deciding that it was worthy of exhibition) OEM filter with 15.8gm produced 27gm in 22sec into the cup. i'll make a slight adjustment next time. Grinding takes 3.6s so as Reiss has said, "knock 'em out when friends/family come around".
The next addition to the process is the "Coffee Catcha" made in Auckland. It works perfectly with the Compak buttons and catches almost 100% of all grinds coming from the shute. Additional, its very easy to use as a distributing tool.
Currently, I'm weighing the PF before and after grinding to check the timing which changes depending on the grind setting, the amount of beans in the hopper and the beans.
As Kfir has said, I'll purge the grinder of the stale grinds to ensure consistent extraction.
Having just extracted an excellent shot from Little Italy Roasters "Proxima" blend (Columbian, Brazilian, Ethiopian and New Guinean beans), I present the results so that you can salivate
Process figures Grinder 3.5s produced 15.8 gm directly into the basket (I weigh the PF before and after) Pre-infusion about 6sec. with the first drops coming about 2-3 sec under the action of the spring.
The following photos show the OE mini hopper in place. I use this when setting up for a new bean/roast. It's easy to add and flush out any remaining beans or grounds with this setup and get close to the required grind time.
With the grinder, its easy to adjust the dose. If the grind is short, the "grind" button can produce fractions of grams on a pulse or if over, you learn just how much to remove from the top of the basket.
The retention is not an issue to me. The best I can remove without grinding more beans is about 2gm. I rock the grinder back and then forward and then hit the collapsable lens cover to "blow" out the remainder.
For last couple of mornings, I have had a milk drink and ignored any "stale" grinds. The extraction may be a little faster but the taste in the cup seems fine. If there's a taste of stale grinds, I have yet to find that out.
This final shot shows the grinder locked and loaded!
BTW Reiss, the new avatar is of the aforementioned shot!
I'm officially in the club, as of an hour ago when DHL delivered mine
I've only two words to describe it. 'Oh' and 'wow'
The rate of progress at Compak has to be experienced to be believed
If you last tried a Compak product ten years ago you probably had reasonable grounds for considering them a bit flimsy. Not today. Compak are going to eat Mazzer's lunch before Mazzer realise the old world order is draining away from them like water out of a bath once the plug is removed
I am upgrading from a Compak K10 fresh that is only a couple of years old, and yet from the moment i switched the E10 on the extent to which Compak had moved the game on became apparent
Much less of the annoying, extraneous stuff, and much more of the good stuff
Specifically;
1. a narrow neck hopper with the traditional gate to stop the beans running out the bottom if the hopper needs to be removed with beans in it (cf the expensive and not very good hopper on the K10fresh
2. the pulse button on the E10 is a genuine pulse button making it useful, cf the K10fresh where it ran for a minimum of about 2 seconds, rendering it quite useless
3. the elimination of the worm gear adjustment which i find infuriatingly slow on any grinder allows for the elimination of the black silicone rubber gasket between the worm gear adjustment wheel and the bottom of the hopper, which in turn allows for (1) above, as shown here;
which leads onto the next point...
4. the daft worm gear adjustment is gone
5. ...as is the equally daft electronic grind setting display, which being limited to 0-100 is of insufficient range to run from burrs touching to an espresso grind
6. im not generally a fan of things like barista lighting, but the manner in which Compak have deployed them means they are functional - i.e. i can make a coffee in the morning without needing to turn the kitchen lights on, which for me is useful
7. the hopper is noticeably thicker on the E10 than on the K10fresh, and heavier too as a result - i like it, it now feels very solid
8. and last, but not least, greatly reduced retention. one double shot of 18g seems to completely clear the stale coffee, but more measurement needs to be done on this - perhaps a 10 or 12g shot would be enough to clear
Reiss Gunson post=7850 wrote: I'm officially in the club, as of an hour ago when DHL delivered mine
I've only two words to describe it. 'Oh' and 'wow'
The rate of progress at Compak has to be experienced to be believed
If you last tried a Compak product ten years ago you probably had reasonable grounds for considering them a bit flimsy. Not today. Compak are going to eat Mazzer's lunch before Mazzer realise the old world order is draining away from them like water out of a bath once the plug is removed
I am upgrading from a Compak K10 fresh that is only a couple of years old, and yet from the moment i switched the E10 on the extent to which Compak had moved the game on became apparent
Much less of the annoying, extraneous stuff, and much more of the good stuff
There you go! Glad to see that black version too!
After playing with the smaller custom hopper, I now have the big one installed. Routinely dump 10-15gm after overnight going a little stale and then i'm good for the day. Make life easy and enjoyable!
Cameron Collins post=7861 wrote: So, Reiss, tell us, do you think the absence of the worm gear adjustment is a good thing or not. I wasn't quite sure from your post :silly:
General question to the users/owners ....If you single dosed 16g do you think you could get 16g out with a puff from a lens hood and a pulse or two?
I'm sure Reiss would say that the absense of the worm gear is an improvement. It was just tedious to make adjustments.
Yes, you can dose and get the same in and out but not necessarily the same beans. I think there is some small residual left that is not removed even with the lens hood puff.
The bigger problem with small dosing is the way grinder grinds when there is less weight of beans above burrs. This is a common problem as less weight seems to produce finer grinds with nothing pushing down particularly near the end of the grind. The result is a wider variation of grinds and you need a courser setting to compensate for this and a more thorough redistribution. The e10 works best with 200+ Gm in their hopper. Consistent easy shots with little or no redistribution straight from the Shute.
i would also recommend the mod that frans, dave hyde and others run whereby they remove the hopper and replace it with a borosilicate lab tube and then place a lump of stainless on top of 100g of beans
This new line from Compak looks like top notch grinders, as expected, thanks all for posting pictures and impressions on the E10. I picked up a barely used (demo model) previous generation k10 pro barista last year and have been extremely pleased with it.
The grind adjustment doesn't bother me but then again it is my first big commercial grinder so I have no comparisons or experience with other adjustment methods. I would choose a Compak grinder again any day of the week because of both build quality and performance and because they seem to keep on improving features with every generation.
Some retention is unavoidable I guess with any grinder, on the K10 pb it can be kept very low (a grams or less in doser and exit chute) with some easy doser modifications (ie. teflon tape on the doser vanes), always bumping out any loose grounds and the occasional vacuuming. Btw. Your recent blog post on retention was an interesting read Reiss. I don't know how much is retained in the burr assembly and chute to the doser on the k10 but also find that the 3rd and 4th shots of the day and onwards are always better than the first two.
I wonder about the burrs in this new line from Compak, guessing they all have these "extra long-life" ones that came in 2012? Haven't found much information online about it except from Compak. Bought my k10 from the norwegian distributor (there are strangely no private resellers of compak grinders here, only commercial it seems, so I was lucky they advertised a used one for sale privately). The manager there showed me a set of these burrs, they are copper-coloured and nick-named "Red speed burrs". He said they were designed to last 5 times longer than the old sets. I'll take those numbers with a grain of salt, it wouldn't matter much for home use anyway as the old sets are rated at 1500kg, but would be interesting to know if there are any other differences to these compared to the old burrs.
Here is a news page from july 2012 at Compak's site where it says they were added as a a new option to their K10Conic, K10/F10 Conic Fresh OnDemand and K8/F8 Fresh OnDemand grinders: http://www.compak.es/mailing/20120712/news_en.htm
PS. About the hoppers, don't know if it was already mentioned but Compak actually also have a small 250g version which I think is a very convenient size to have for home use. A lab tube or the OE short stack works better if changing coffee very often of course. I bought this small 250g hopper with mine when picking it up and have not used my OE short stack or the big standard hopper for a long time. Here's how it looks:
Hi Stephen, yes I set up a timer box (from Auberins) to control the power on the k10pb, to have a sort of on-demand function similar to the old k10 fresh and now these new models like the E10. It also helps keep waste to a minimum. The timer has 2 programmable buttons and one manual, works great, highly recommended for anyone with a dosered grinder without timer. It cost ca. $100 USD. One button is set to 3,5s and the other at 3,75s as I find they give out about 16-16,5g and 17,5-18g respectively, depending on coffee used, roast level, grind setting etc.
I usually purge and throw about a seconds worth in the morning before first shot, using the manual button. Too short to remove all old stale grounds from the previous day of course but the wife gets the first cup and she uses 3 times more milk than espresso in her drinks and doesn't notice it
I have the same situation with my wife's preference in consuming coffee.
Here's one for you, she uses powdered cream and and until last week was using artificial sweetener (diabetes), so have you ever tried to steam powdered cream? The results are less than pleasing...
haha, I have never tried that but suspect it must be difficult to steam to good tasting results. My better half uses only soy milk and I find it difficult to produce good and even microfoam, results vary.
Btw. someone asked earlier in the thread about the compak e10 versus the hg-one, and 68mm to 83mm burrs, since Trevor was selling his hand-grinder. I obviously haven't used the E10 but in my experience with the k10pb there is no significant taste difference between them, according to my palate. I can make an excellent shot from each on the londinium. I'm sure people with experience in tasting coffee could tell them apart but my taste-buds are not sophisticated enough to do that.
Only major difference for me is the well known convenience factor you get with any of these electric grinders and the ability to knock out shot after shot in relatively quick succession.
I have the HG-One with both the 71mm and the 83mm burrs and I cannot tell much, if any, taste difference between them. Once I put the motor on the HG-One the hand cranking with arthritic shoulders became a non-issue.
When I had the Pharos at the same time as the HG-One there was not a significant difference in taste either. The big differences come with conical to flat comparisons.
I wish one of the Forum members would buy an E8 OD and report on it :cheer:
Remi Andre Bjørnstad post=7898 wrote: haha, I have never tried that but suspect it must be difficult to steam to good tasting results. My better half uses only soy milk and I find it difficult to produce good and even microfoam, results vary.
Btw. someone asked earlier in the thread about the compak e10 versus the hg-one, and 68mm to 83mm burrs, since Trevor was selling his hand-grinder. I obviously haven't used the E10 but in my experience with the k10pb there is no significant taste difference between them, according to my palate. I can make an excellent shot from each on the londinium. I'm sure people with experience in tasting coffee could tell them apart but my taste-buds are not sophisticated enough to do that.
Only major difference for me is the well known convenience factor you get with any of these electric grinders and the ability to knock out shot after shot in relatively quick succession.
I agree that the taste may not be that different but the convenience and less redistribution means more consistency. I think a key to grinding is how weight influences the way conical burrs do their job. My OE hopper has a cone shape thus not allowing any cylinder to be placed on the beans. More experiments with narrow tubes and weights will ensue!
Remi Andre Bjørnstad post=7882 wrote: This new line from Compak looks like top notch grinders, as expected, thanks all for posting pictures and impressions on the E10. I picked up a barely used (demo model) previous generation k10 pro barista last year and have been extremely pleased with it.
The grind adjustment doesn't bother me but then again it is my first big commercial grinder so I have no comparisons or experience with other adjustment methods. I would choose a Compak grinder again any day of the week because of both build quality and performance and because they seem to keep on improving features with every generation.
thats exactly my point! Compak had it right with the grind adjustment mechanism on the grinder you own, then they added unnecessary complexity to the Fresh with the worm gear adjustment. The E10 goes back to the same grind adjustment mechanism that your grinder has, complete with the exponentially better tension screw behind the ball bearing for retaining the hopper instead of the 10 cent screw used to retain the K10 Fresh hopper, which unless you are wide awake at all times you are going to bend the screw or damage the neck of the hopper sooner or later. i haven't yet, but there have been plenty of close calls when i have been in a hurry.
Kfir in Israel (on this forum) also has a K10PB that is his preferred grinder.
Comments
Thanks for your wisdom and the others for their acrylic tube solution. I guess it comes down to two factors.
1. Assuming you dose correctly for your method of grinding (smaller funnel with not a lot of beans and therefore not much weight or a good load of beans in the big hopper), is there any difference in the cup?
2. how you dose?
With the E10, my first grind this morning, came up short and there is now about 100-120gms of beans in the hopper. Very easy to solve with the E10 - just momentarily press the "grind" button and instantly another 1.5 - 2.0gm is in your PF. Any longer press of said button creates more cleanup!
As a weigh the PF before the grind, its easy to wipe away any excess, smooth out using a credit card before tamping. So for me, dosing is not the main issue - purging stale grinds and getting the best extraction is the goal.
So my experiment will be to see if (when using the same beans and similar extraction times) a full weighted hopper or a short hopper with no weight provide different cups. This will be subjective and hopefully within a hour and kilo of beans of each other.
Should there be a difference in favour of the large hopper, what is the weight to be placed on a short hopper to simulate a large one? I think a kilo is at one end of the spectrum. The OE mini hopper has a 58mm mouth and the Londinium Tamps is over 300gm so if the mini hopper is full and the tamper is used, I guess the weight on the beans just above the burrs will be like 2 kgs of beans in the big hopper. More on this later.
Cheers
Trevor
Hi Cameron,
Cleanliness has not been a issue but static seems responsible for the grinds near the shute and the extra burst I had to do this morning because the hopper is getting down pushed some grinds to the bench.
While I know OE has PF funnels, a local one which is smaller might fit and broaden the shute catch area to prevent the top bursts when I fall short.
Thanks Frans for your postings. If you were here, we would have so much fun again. Got any plans?
The new "Proxima" blend from Adam at littleitalyroasters is on my shopping list. I thought it was very good using the HG1 so a comparison will definitely be worth it.
Yes, working out a simple routine when I keep changing beans is hard so I'm thinking a bit of experimentation will bed the machine down. When I asked about seasoning the burrs on a Compak, the answer was "don't worry, they are already good." so I don't think that's a big concern.
As per a previous post, I will be setting up with a kilo of beans provided by the supplier (no idea of the quality yet) and seeing how larger hoppers, mini hoppers, single dosing compares as soon as all the elements arrive here.
Cheers
Trevor
i see mahlkoenig are actually specifying the break in quantity of beans on their website, or perhaps it was a manual i saw, and for a number of their models the break in quantity of beans was specified as zero kilograms
i have people telling me that a grinder like an R120 needs 40Kg of beans to break in the burrs and that instinctively feels wrong to me
a poorly machined burr set will have 'burrs' on it and a break in period will no doubt knock these lumps of, but why not a burr set that is nicely milled and finished? hey, its 2015, it seems within the realms of possibility to me
i could be imagining it, but i don't think my R120 has changed appreciably since i put the first bean in it to be honest
to be fair these big flat burrs are machined quite differently to the smaller ones and have a service life of a think 13,000Kg or so perhaps my comparison is not completely meaningful, but i remain dubious when people quote monster run in bean weights
Looking forward to that, might be towards the other end of this year!
Makes sense
Thanks for the enquiries.
As mentioned in a previous post, I was supplied with a kilo of beans from the shop from which I purchased the grinder. The extractions I tried from those beans were OK but in the cup it was flat.
Since the large hopper became empty and the recent purchase of "Proxima" from Adam at LittleItalyRoasters (Frans will remember and Adam sends his regards) are too early to use, I purchased some "Crema" from Jet Black Expresso.
The result (this photo is after taking a sip and deciding that it was worthy of exhibition) OEM filter with 15.8gm produced 27gm in 22sec into the cup. i'll make a slight adjustment next time. Grinding takes 3.6s so as Reiss has said, "knock 'em out when friends/family come around".
The next addition to the process is the "Coffee Catcha" made in Auckland. It works perfectly with the Compak buttons and catches almost 100% of all grinds coming from the shute. Additional, its very easy to use as a distributing tool.
Currently, I'm weighing the PF before and after grinding to check the timing which changes depending on the grind setting, the amount of beans in the hopper and the beans.
As Kfir has said, I'll purge the grinder of the stale grinds to ensure consistent extraction.
More later.
Cheers
Trevor
Process figures
Grinder 3.5s produced 15.8 gm directly into the basket (I weigh the PF before and after)
Pre-infusion about 6sec. with the first drops coming about 2-3 sec under the action of the spring.
The following photos show the OE mini hopper in place. I use this when setting up for a new bean/roast. It's easy to add and flush out any remaining beans or grounds with this setup and get close to the required grind time.
With the grinder, its easy to adjust the dose. If the grind is short, the "grind" button can produce fractions of grams on a pulse or if over, you learn just how much to remove from the top of the basket.
The retention is not an issue to me. The best I can remove without grinding more beans is about 2gm. I rock the grinder back and then forward and then hit the collapsable lens cover to "blow" out the remainder.
For last couple of mornings, I have had a milk drink and ignored any "stale" grinds. The extraction may be a little faster but the taste in the cup seems fine. If there's a taste of stale grinds, I have yet to find that out.
This final shot shows the grinder locked and loaded!
BTW Reiss, the new avatar is of the aforementioned shot!
Cheers
Trevor
I've only two words to describe it. 'Oh' and 'wow'
The rate of progress at Compak has to be experienced to be believed
If you last tried a Compak product ten years ago you probably had reasonable grounds for considering them a bit flimsy. Not today. Compak are going to eat Mazzer's lunch before Mazzer realise the old world order is draining away from them like water out of a bath once the plug is removed
I am upgrading from a Compak K10 fresh that is only a couple of years old, and yet from the moment i switched the E10 on the extent to which Compak had moved the game on became apparent
Much less of the annoying, extraneous stuff, and much more of the good stuff
Specifically;
1. a narrow neck hopper with the traditional gate to stop the beans running out the bottom if the hopper needs to be removed with beans in it (cf the expensive and not very good hopper on the K10fresh
2. the pulse button on the E10 is a genuine pulse button making it useful, cf the K10fresh where it ran for a minimum of about 2 seconds, rendering it quite useless
3. the elimination of the worm gear adjustment which i find infuriatingly slow on any grinder allows for the elimination of the black silicone rubber gasket between the worm gear adjustment wheel and the bottom of the hopper, which in turn allows for (1) above, as shown here;
which leads onto the next point...
4. the daft worm gear adjustment is gone
5. ...as is the equally daft electronic grind setting display, which being limited to 0-100 is of insufficient range to run from burrs touching to an espresso grind
6. im not generally a fan of things like barista lighting, but the manner in which Compak have deployed them means they are functional - i.e. i can make a coffee in the morning without needing to turn the kitchen lights on, which for me is useful
7. the hopper is noticeably thicker on the E10 than on the K10fresh, and heavier too as a result - i like it, it now feels very solid
8. and last, but not least, greatly reduced retention. one double shot of 18g seems to completely clear the stale coffee, but more measurement needs to be done on this - perhaps a 10 or 12g shot would be enough to clear
reiss.
There you go! Glad to see that black version too!
After playing with the smaller custom hopper, I now have the big one installed. Routinely dump 10-15gm after overnight going a little stale and then i'm good for the day. Make life easy and enjoyable!
General question to the users/owners ....If you single dosed 16g do you think you could get 16g out with a puff from a lens hood and a pulse or two?
Yes, you can dose and get the same in and out but not necessarily the same beans. I think there is some small residual left that is not removed even with the lens hood puff.
The bigger problem with small dosing is the way grinder grinds when there is less weight of beans above burrs. This is a common problem as less weight seems to produce finer grinds with nothing pushing down particularly near the end of the grind. The result is a wider variation of grinds and you need a courser setting to compensate for this and a more thorough redistribution.
The e10 works best with 200+ Gm in their hopper. Consistent easy shots with little or no redistribution straight from the Shute.
this gives a very nice even, and fast, grind
The grind adjustment doesn't bother me but then again it is my first big commercial grinder so I have no comparisons or experience with other adjustment methods. I would choose a Compak grinder again any day of the week because of both build quality and performance and because they seem to keep on improving features with every generation.
Some retention is unavoidable I guess with any grinder, on the K10 pb it can be kept very low (a grams or less in doser and exit chute) with some easy doser modifications (ie. teflon tape on the doser vanes), always bumping out any loose grounds and the occasional vacuuming. Btw. Your recent blog post on retention was an interesting read Reiss. I don't know how much is retained in the burr assembly and chute to the doser on the k10 but also find that the 3rd and 4th shots of the day and onwards are always better than the first two.
I wonder about the burrs in this new line from Compak, guessing they all have these "extra long-life" ones that came in 2012? Haven't found much information online about it except from Compak. Bought my k10 from the norwegian distributor (there are strangely no private resellers of compak grinders here, only commercial it seems, so I was lucky they advertised a used one for sale privately). The manager there showed me a set of these burrs, they are copper-coloured and nick-named "Red speed burrs". He said they were designed to last 5 times longer than the old sets. I'll take those numbers with a grain of salt, it wouldn't matter much for home use anyway as the old sets are rated at 1500kg, but would be interesting to know if there are any other differences to these compared to the old burrs.
Here is a news page from july 2012 at Compak's site where it says they were added as a a new option to their K10Conic, K10/F10 Conic Fresh OnDemand and K8/F8 Fresh OnDemand grinders: http://www.compak.es/mailing/20120712/news_en.htm
PS. About the hoppers, don't know if it was already mentioned but Compak actually also have a small 250g version which I think is a very convenient size to have for home use. A lab tube or the OE short stack works better if changing coffee very often of course. I bought this small 250g hopper with mine when picking it up and have not used my OE short stack or the big standard hopper for a long time. Here's how it looks:
I usually purge and throw about a seconds worth in the morning before first shot, using the manual button. Too short to remove all old stale grounds from the previous day of course but the wife gets the first cup and she uses 3 times more milk than espresso in her drinks and doesn't notice it
Here's one for you, she uses powdered cream and and until last week was using artificial sweetener (diabetes), so have you ever tried to steam powdered cream? The results are less than pleasing...
Btw. someone asked earlier in the thread about the compak e10 versus the hg-one, and 68mm to 83mm burrs, since Trevor was selling his hand-grinder. I obviously haven't used the E10 but in my experience with the k10pb there is no significant taste difference between them, according to my palate. I can make an excellent shot from each on the londinium. I'm sure people with experience in tasting coffee could tell them apart but my taste-buds are not sophisticated enough to do that.
Only major difference for me is the well known convenience factor you get with any of these electric grinders and the ability to knock out shot after shot in relatively quick succession.
When I had the Pharos at the same time as the HG-One there was not a significant difference in taste either. The big differences come with conical to flat comparisons.
I wish one of the Forum members would buy an E8 OD and report on it :cheer:
My OE hopper has a cone shape thus not allowing any cylinder to be placed on the beans. More experiments with narrow tubes and weights will ensue!
thats exactly my point! Compak had it right with the grind adjustment mechanism on the grinder you own, then they added unnecessary complexity to the Fresh with the worm gear adjustment. The E10 goes back to the same grind adjustment mechanism that your grinder has, complete with the exponentially better tension screw behind the ball bearing for retaining the hopper instead of the 10 cent screw used to retain the K10 Fresh hopper, which unless you are wide awake at all times you are going to bend the screw or damage the neck of the hopper sooner or later. i haven't yet, but there have been plenty of close calls when i have been in a hurry.
Kfir in Israel (on this forum) also has a K10PB that is his preferred grinder.
i'll have one within the next month i expect. This time in polished aluminium
David Hyde on this forum has had an E8 for quite a while - send him a PM
http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?22252-Compak-E8-OD-(-Courtesy-of-Callum-T-and-Foundry-Roasters-)
Thanks for sharing the link. The E8 sounds very good too. It would be great to hear how the two compare.