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New Compak E10 Conic OD
Having researched online and obtain advice from from people who I trust, I ordered and paid for a locally supplied new Compak E10 Conic Grinder in black.
I take delivery next week and then my HG One will be looking for a new home. It's still in great condition (purchased Nov 2013) and has the TiN 83mm burr set. I estimate less than 15 kgs of beans have been ground by it so it still has years of service at that rate.
[strike]Photos and details of the HG one and its related equipment will be posted on the BUY/SELL/SWAP thread of this forum next week. If you are interested in the HG-One, please PM me expressing the same.[/strike] HG One Sold!
More reports when I start using the new grinder.
I take delivery next week and then my HG One will be looking for a new home. It's still in great condition (purchased Nov 2013) and has the TiN 83mm burr set. I estimate less than 15 kgs of beans have been ground by it so it still has years of service at that rate.
[strike]Photos and details of the HG one and its related equipment will be posted on the BUY/SELL/SWAP thread of this forum next week. If you are interested in the HG-One, please PM me expressing the same.[/strike] HG One Sold!
More reports when I start using the new grinder.
Comments
The supplier didn't physically have the stock and so I'm getting a white one which is in stock rather than a black one which I would have to wait for. I have not heard that the colour of the machine makes a difference in the cup so it does matter to me. Apparently he gets supplied by Campak Australia and that's in Melbourne, Victoria. More black ones are expected on 25th.
More on this subject soon.
Yes, it's now being used and the first few shots taste great, with easy dosing and consistent extraction.
The machine in place ready to go.
My first extraction is pictured using some "el cheapo" Lavazza beans but even they tasted OK. Having got close to the correct grind, I have now retired those beans.
I have found single dosing very easy. I cleared the hopper of beans but I'll use it for delivery until my Short Stack Compak Mini Hopper from OrphanEsporesso arrives. That should please Marilyn who looked at the size of the grinder and almost said some unkind words.
With the big hopper I weighed 15.8gm of Londinium Colombian beans, got 15.7 grams ground and then the extraction ran a little quick. Tasted OK but increased the dose slightly and on the second dose, obtained 27mls in 27sec, no spits and farts and wow! the flavour and mouth feel. The grinder really came through.
Reiss spoke of the clarity with large Compak grinders and I now understand what he was talking about. "There's more in them there beans" to paraphrase the gold prospector!
it seems that the E10 master conic has stronger engine.
According to their product page:
http://www.compak.es/en/e10-conic-essential-od-4.php
The spinn speed is a bit odd. It depends on V/Hz.
Sounds perfectly logical to me. That's how electric motors work if they run on AC, it is electromagnetism.
Sounds perfectly logical to me. That's how electric motors work if they run on AC, it is electromagnetism.
+1, the height of the machine is different and that is probably because of the motor differences.
The higher the voltages they operate on the more power they have and therefore can turn the burrs slower if they wish to do so by design, but as far as what you or I might see in the basket the difference would not be perceptible IMO.
It is a very nice grinder regardless of what voltage you operate on
If on a row boat the guy in the front with the megaphone shouts "pull" 50 times per minute and on an adjacent boat the guy shouts "pull" 60 times per minute, the second boat would move faster if all the rest is identical.
Same on an AC grinder motor if one gets 50 cycles per second and the other 60.
I think the point Marion is trying to make is that Compak have a typographical error in the stated power output of at least one of the two grinders in the 100V/50Hz row of the table
Compak have a bit of a tradition of this I'm afraid, and it's most annoying - you will find other examples of this if you look
Please welcome Marion on board as she has had her L1 for a long time, yet this is her first post, although I can see that she frequently logs into this site
Reiss
Please make allowances for people inversely proportional to how many posts they have made on the site
The forum will be much more useful if all owners feel comfortable in posting here
I like electronics and enjoy an opportunity to talk about it and clarify things (if I feel understand them).
Thank you for the greeting forum message.
I am more than happy with the L1. It is wonderful machine. There are some issues with the piston humming sound but I dont mind. The espresso is superb.
Just a tiny enlightenment. Marian is male name in Slovakia
Of course you may not know this as we did not communicate with each other.
Is the retention really only 0,1 g? Is this without some mod?
How is it with the setting recurrence?
I am asking as I am considering new grinder.
It will be only for espresso drinks. I like light roast and my wife prefers medium-dark.
So it should be single dosed with small retention, the burr setting should be easy repeatable.
Welcome Marian. I'll try to answer your questions and others are certainly welcome to correct or augment.
Retention on commercial grinders such as the E10 has been minimised but not eliminated. The coffee path from the top of the burrs to the output shute is small but there will be coffee in that space. My reference to the 0.1gm difference was after I had already ground several shots of coffee, tipped the machine back and let it rock forward to clear any loose coffee from the shute. The loss of 0.1gm could easily be accounted for by some compaction or retention that was not shaken out.
The E10 makes the coffee routine very quick, consistent and easy. Fill the hopper with 500gm of beans, set your grind/dose and fill your PF the same time and time again.
So what about single dosing and changing beans. While I have yet to have a definitive approach, the following facts are in play:-
1. The E10 hopper has a shut off slide so that I can grind out the last 30gm of beans above the burrs.
2. I'm about to receive my Mini hopper from Orphan Espresso and have a collapsable lens cover to fit which will act as a bellows to blow air along the coffee path to remove the last loose coffee.
3. For each new beans, there is likely to be adjustments to grind and dose so that's normal for any grinder.
4. On the second plus shots, if I weigh grams in, I expect the same grams out. There is probably going to be some residual from a previous shot but its unlikely to have much impact in the cup if it was ground recently.
Marian, once you know the grind setting for each of your coffees, alternating should be very easy with just a rock of the grinder to clear the shute on an E10. You can run the machine on a manual basis, adjust the grind to your setting while its running, throw your weigh of beans down the hopper and it will grind the lot. A little rock to clear the shute and then repeat for the next beans. Warning, don't stick anything up the shute to clear any residual.
I expect my coffee making will remain with the same beans until I'm bored, so I'll use the hopper. Apparently the small hopper on the K3 fits the E10 so that's an option.
Reiss has pointed out to me that the E10 grinds better with the weight of a half filled hopper of beans as it affects the way the burrs work. As for residual coffee in and around the burrs over night, I'll see whether it greatly affects the taste or not. If it does, then I grind a single throw-away shot to create fresh coffee before my real shot gets ground.
Looking at the machine again this morning. It's big and solid, quiet when working, almost silent when not (just the cooling fan). Very happy but still learning.
For those that might have missed it, Marian or Marion Morrison was a male and better known as his stage name, "John Wayne"
And a big welcome Marian to the Forum! I will apologize in advance if my answers are to brief/terse or curt and I by no means know everything, but I generally am a quick learner and am always open to new ways of doing things that other contributors propose.
How is the Compak doing in relation to the HG-1? Is there any difference in the cup, or is the Compak just easier to use? thanks. Michael
http://www.compak.es/en/e10-conic-essential-od.php
http://hg-one.com/product/hg-one-grinder-bb-mazzer-83mm-burrs/
Thanks for the question. I'm still learning so a full comparison on taste is yet to be conducted.
The Compak has a different taste which I can describe as "clarity" - recognisable flavours as the coffee fills the mouth rather than being more muted and uniform. The mouth feel seems smoother.
Currently I have the large hopper filled with Londinium Colombian beans about 3 weeks since roasting and I'm still making adjustments to the dosing time and to the grind. I weigh the PF before I grind, (zeroing the scale) and then just before tamping after smoothing off the PF. I'm seeking 15.9gm right now so there's a little throw-away as the grinder (on a 2 shot preselect mode) currently delivers about 16.5gm in 3.60s.
The process is fast. You can adjust the time in hundredths of a sec for each of 1, 2 or 3 shot preselections. That means, I can set up an 10gm shot on "1", a 15.8gm double on "2" and an 18gm triple on "3". Just select on the key pad, place the PF under the shute and nudge the button with the PF. As It flows out, catch the flow evenly in the PF, weight (if needed), level and tamp.
I discovered the first grind this morning with some stale grinds/beans produced over 18gm and tasted stale on the finish in the mouth but not on the front palate. I then had a quick flow shot which produced 25ml in about 12s before getting a slightly better shot which was still a little quick. None of these shots had any bitterness having a good crema but perhaps a little thinner than they should be. The pour from the PF ran very well in all cases, with no spritzing.
Using the hopper when setup will make successive shots really easy (like a commercial cafe). When I receive my OE hopper, I'll see how single dosing works and how much difference its makes against the HG-One.
I have to get more friends around to reduce the "wastage" of stale grinds. The wastage is really the only downside to using the hopper. It's may be less using single dosing.
Cheers
Trevor
then 100g of beans in the tube and a 1Kg stainless weight on top that slides inside the tube
this gives you a very nice, and fast, grind on a conical burr
It was a bit of a surprise to find a massive Tesco on the edge of town though!
I did that two years ago with my Mazzer:
In the end I took that out and just used a short tube to drop a weighed dose into the throat of the Kony.
My powered HG-One is much easier to use :-)
If you are going to leave a hopper on the Compak with beans in it I would suggest trying to adapt a small hopper like the Mazzer Mini hopper. That was what I decided to do and just use the Mazzer Kony for our card games where there would be lots of coffee consumed, but other than that I did not use the Mazzer anymore and decided to sell it.
I didn't comment when you and Frans were building your modded machines, I had already sold mine so it was not appropriate for me, but I am interested in how you feel after a period of use.
It's a great grinder with a major flaw... No motor!
From my experience with both the K10 Pro Barista and the K10 fresh I can say that the amount of beans when using a hopper will impact the grind and I strongly recommend to always keep at least 100g+ of beans in the hopper if you want a consistent dose.
Do not grind the coffee until the hopper is empty (unless you have strong nerves to try and figure out what went wrong with your shot
Retention on the K10 fresh was significant, I used to throw at least a double shot every morning to clear the stale grounds from the grind path.
Single dosing was not easy since there was always coffee left inside so I can't see the point of doing that with this type of a grinder.
The K10 Pro Barista was much more suited for single dosing, I preferred working with it over the fresh for that purpose.
The acrylic hopper with a weight to push the beans looks like a good solution to minimize the use of a larger hopper with a lot of beans, give it a try...
Enjoy your new grinder.
Kfir.
Thanks for the question. I'm still learning so a full comparison on taste is yet to be conducted.
I am very interested in the results too! Take your time Trevor to form an opinion, since the new burrs need to get some grinding to do before they perform at their best, and the new routine of working will need to get settled for best results.
Personally I expect the taste results to be comparable, or only subtly different since the HG One is a single dosing device and the new machine is hoppered or will probably work best with a column of beans above the burrs, and maybe discarding one shot at the start of a grinding session to be sure about freshness. The big advantage being the ease of use, speed, convenience, reliability, consistency, not having to weigh beans and set the timer once the machine is dialed in.
Bigger burrs tend to 'win' in comparisons, but there are always so many factors playing a role, the user, the basket, the routine, the tamp et cetera that I think it will not be easy to draw any quick conclusion. In a magazine or a forum "review" when for instance three grinders are "compared" I take the results with a grain of salt as such a test, to do it really well, takes so much time and has so little entertainment value that editors tend to hack their way to some spectacular conclusion illustrated with nice pictures without digging too deep.
I enjoy the motorized HG One every day. On the recent vacation in Germany, I brought the HG One and also the little Mahlkoenig and I was expecting to spend a day comparing them, also checking if the extraction / TDS is significantly different but I never started the Mahlkoenig, the days flew by even though I tried to do absolutely nothing.
The motorized HG One grinds at a constant speed, which I expect will be helpful, an improvement over hand grinding at more or less one speed.
Did I read somewhere (very vague recollection on my part) that the E10 comes with pre-seasoned burrs or at least burrs that have been treated in someway to mimick in part the effect of seasoning?
Welcome Marian BTW.
One question on the E10, vis the exit chute and worktop mess.
excluding the times when you might over fill the basket and get overflow of grinds from the PF, how do you find the overall cleanliness of your worktop from stray grinds working/living with this machine in day to day use?
Yes, it is a big conical, zero retention and pretty quiet, considerably more quiet than my Versalab, and less mess too :-)