1. the max level on the fill probe is not reached after i think 30 seconds of the pump trying to refill
there are multiple causes for (1)
1.1 occluded solenoid valve - open and clean - instructional video in the permanent file
1.2 dirty level probe not correctly measuring the water level in the boiler
1.3 reverse osmosis water, distilled water, or glacier water, all of which which are too soft (not enough free ions in the water) for the low voltage electric current to carry through the water
1.4 the pump is no longer moving water
2. there is no flow of electrons between the two electrodes in the bottom of the water tank
there are multiple causes for (2)
2.0 there is no water in the tank
2.1 the water in the tank is reverse osmosis water, distilled water, or glacier water, all of which which are too soft (not enough free ions in the water) for the low voltage electric current to carry through the water between the two electrodes (the electrical resistance is too high)
2.2 the brass sprung loaded probes underneath the water box are not in contact with the stainless probes because they have been pushed down too far into their sleeved, resulting in the springs below getting trapped
2.3 the brass sprung loaded probes underneath the water box are not in contact with the stainless probes because the water box has not been fully seated into the water box carrier
2.4 the brass sprung loaded probes have corrosion on them and need to be cleaned with a brass polish
2.5 the wires connected to the bottom of the brass probes could come loose in the early machines (2012-early2013)
2.6 LR only: the 40mm of silicone tubing on one of the low level water probes has a bubble of air in it, caused by pouring directly onto the silicone tubing when you refill the water tank. to remedy squeeze silicone tubing gently to dislodge the air bubble. take care not to dislodge the silicone tubing when doing squeezing the tubing
there might be some other reasons i missed, but those are a few to get you started
Thank you for both replies, Reiss. Most helpful. A strange variant happened today, whereby the low water alarm came on, I shut machine off for an hour, allowing it to cool down & “rest”, then turned it back on again and it worked perfectly... even though I had not added water (or anything else) to the tank. Same thing happened after the next shot, whereby I again shut machine down, waited an hour, did not add water to tank; after an hour or so wait, turned it back on and all was well. I am now wondering if it may be an erratic or unpredictable wiring issue that is playing havoc with my L1... I will search the permanent files this weekend to learn more about this. Perhaps shorting in the wiring might be part or all of the problem?
if it were a 'short' the alarm would not sound, as a short completes the circuit
the alarm sounds when the circuit is broken, the result of water in which the electrical conductivity is too low, a symptom of water that is too soft
i suggest you start by working through the list of things that can cause the low water alarm to sound, like corrosion on the brass electrodes underneath the water box that the stainless steel electrodes in the bottom of the water tank need to sit on in order to complete the electrical circuit
also check that neither of the brass electrodes have been pushed down too far, causing the springs underneath them to get trapped
and if it is an early machine - first half of 2013 and earlier - check that the wires for the low water sensor are securely screwed onto the bottom of the electrode terminals, which can be found underneath the black powder coated metal water box carrier
Thanks, and yup, did check all those various connection points early on in my investigation. But I did not inspect the tightness of the wiring screws, which I will do this weekend. It is indeed an early 2012 machine, so perhaps that will be the answer...
Thanks, and yup, did check the various (electrode/sensor) connection points early on in my investigation. But I did not inspect the tightness of the wiring screws, which I will do this weekend.
I am hoping I won’t have to consider the solenoid valve cleaning mentioned in the list of possibilities ... but if all else fails, I am of course willing to tackle another new challenge.
It is indeed an early 2012 machine, so perhaps that will be the answer... (the previous owner had it plumbed in, so I doubt the water tank option was used very much until recently).
if it were to be the solenoid the low water alarm is only going to trigger if the pump is unable to replenish the boiler (after say 250mL has been drawn off via the hot water tap) within i think 30 seconds
if the low water alarm is sounding outside of this activity an occluded solenoid is not the cause
I have taken all 4 panels off, for a clear view. I will attach pictures, to show the wires in that region and the electrodes/connection pins underneath the tank. All looks to be in order; however, I don’t know how to proceed from here: *where or what do I tighten?*:huh:
(I can also see a few whitish-greenish powdery deposits on the boiler ; could those be due to the 5 grams of baking soda I have been adding to the tank recently, or perhaps they were there when I acquired the machine... I don’t know, as this is the first time I have removed side panels.)
I am puzzled about what/where to tighten connecting wires, as I had anticipated seeing wires attached to the electrode- pins, but they do not appear to be. Perhaps because this machine was plumbed in previously, things have been modified when it was swirptched back to tank mode??
In poking a little deeper, I can see a bend or kink in the plastic water tube where it sits near the boiler. Could this have played any role in the intermittent havoc with the water level alarm sensors?
Terra Banes post=16469 wrote: I am puzzled about what/where to tighten connecting wires, as I had anticipated seeing wires attached to the electrode- pins, but they do not appear to be. Perhaps because this machine was plumbed in previously, things have been modified when it was swirptched back to tank mode??
things have not been modified when it has been switched back to tank mode, that is the problem
the wires to the low water sensor terminals have been disconnected, which now that you advise that the machine was previously plumed in, makes sense these wires need to be disconnected and joined with the bypass wire that is included in the plumb in kit, otherwise the low water alarm would keep coming on
the fact that you have the low water alarm coming on, despite the wires not being connected suggests that with any scrambling around that may have occurred under the water tank carrier over time that perhaps the bypass wire that is used to connect to two wires to the low water sensor terminals has been disconnected at one or both ends, or perhaps the bypass wire was never used?
the next step is are you able to provide an image of the bypass wire going the two wires that need to be connected to the low water terminals?
they should be lying somewhere under the water box carrier, directly below the two low water terminals, unless they have been deliberately pulled out from under the water box carrier
it looks like you have the original 120V on/off switch - it is looking a bit tired and is likely to need replacing at some point
it also has the original 20A Sirai which we have since upgraded to a 30A Sirai as it only costs slightly more and the surface area of the contacts is vastly greater, i.e. a lot more than 50% more of the 20A switch. the machine has a large group on a relatively small boiler so the pressure switch switches with much greater frequency than say on the L1/2/3 with their vastly greater boiler volumes
the rest of the machine is fine
aside from the upgrades for the early machines (on/off switch, 30A sirai, nicer safety valve) the L1(2012-16) is bombproof and will provide many many years of reliable service and enjoyment
in conclusion, to date you have not had a low water alarm on your water tank (due to the presence of the bypass wire), so the low water alarm will have only been sounding when the pump has been unable to refill the boiler in 30 seconds, due to there not being enough water in the tank/or the tank having gotten low enough to suck air into the pump and then being refilled and so the pump is a bit slow to refill the boiler the first time so the low water alarm sounds
i suspect you will no longer have to add baking soda to your water, but let us know how you get on
Ah-ha! A simple solution! Wonderful! Thanks so much! (And I really appreciate your diagram & thorough explanation of how to do the job, as working on espresso machines is all very new to me!)
(I removed pstat cover to provide a clear view, but not until after I had unplugged machine.:))
I needed skinnier & longer fingers, to complete the beautifully simple task of re-attaching the wires under the tank!;) But, I think I have everything snug & ready to go now, but would like to test it before putting all 4 panels back on.
“ it looks like you have the original 120V on/off switch - it is looking a bit tired and is likely to need replacing at some point
it also has the original 20A Sirai which we have since upgraded to a 30A Sirai as it only costs slightly more and the surface area of the contacts is vastly greater, i.e. a lot more than 50% more of the 20A switch. the machine has a large group on a relatively small boiler so the pressure switch switches with much greater frequency than say on the L1/2/3 with their vastly greater boiler volumes
the rest of the machine is fine
aside from the upgrades for the early machines (on/off switch, 30A sirai, nicer safety valve) the L1(2012-16) is bombproof and will provide many many years of reliable service and enjoyment”
This is all very good to know, Reiss (and very reassuring, too)! I have been putting together an order, and will add these items to it; holding off submitting until I know for sure what all I will need in the year ahead, including another pf & shower screen, piston seals kit/set, etc. Doing it all in one go will help with shipping charges.... so the list is “in the works”.:)
Terra Banes post=16478 wrote: Ah-ha! A simple solution! Wonderful! Thanks so much! (And I really appreciate your diagram & thorough explanation of how to do the job, as working on espresso machines is all very new to me!)
(I removed pstat cover to provide a clear view, but not until after I had unplugged machine.:))
I needed skinnier & longer fingers, to complete the beautifully simple task of re-attaching the wires under the tank!;) But, I think I have everything snug & ready to go now, but would like to test it before putting all 4 panels back on.
Is it safe to run machine with panels off?
yes, but please replace the cover on the 20A Sirai pressure first as that is switching the full electrical load of the heating element and dont leave the machine unattended if you have children or persons of limited capacity in the house
Comments
the no water control is set as:
Conductivity is set at a minimum of +/-300 Kohm
Resistance less than 300 Kohm means WATER PRESENT
Resistance great than 300 Kohm means WATER NOT PRESENT
kind regards
reiss.
reasons for water alarm sounding
1. the max level on the fill probe is not reached after i think 30 seconds of the pump trying to refill
there are multiple causes for (1)
1.1 occluded solenoid valve - open and clean - instructional video in the permanent file
1.2 dirty level probe not correctly measuring the water level in the boiler
1.3 reverse osmosis water, distilled water, or glacier water, all of which which are too soft (not enough free ions in the water) for the low voltage electric current to carry through the water
1.4 the pump is no longer moving water
2. there is no flow of electrons between the two electrodes in the bottom of the water tank
there are multiple causes for (2)
2.0 there is no water in the tank
2.1 the water in the tank is reverse osmosis water, distilled water, or glacier water, all of which which are too soft (not enough free ions in the water) for the low voltage electric current to carry through the water between the two electrodes (the electrical resistance is too high)
2.2 the brass sprung loaded probes underneath the water box are not in contact with the stainless probes because they have been pushed down too far into their sleeved, resulting in the springs below getting trapped
2.3 the brass sprung loaded probes underneath the water box are not in contact with the stainless probes because the water box has not been fully seated into the water box carrier
2.4 the brass sprung loaded probes have corrosion on them and need to be cleaned with a brass polish
2.5 the wires connected to the bottom of the brass probes could come loose in the early machines (2012-early2013)
2.6 LR only: the 40mm of silicone tubing on one of the low level water probes has a bubble of air in it, caused by pouring directly onto the silicone tubing when you refill the water tank. to remedy squeeze silicone tubing gently to dislodge the air bubble. take care not to dislodge the silicone tubing when doing squeezing the tubing
there might be some other reasons i missed, but those are a few to get you started
A strange variant happened today, whereby the low water alarm came on, I shut machine off for an hour, allowing it to cool down & “rest”, then turned it back on again and it worked perfectly... even though I had not added water (or anything else) to the tank. Same thing happened after the next shot, whereby I again shut machine down, waited an hour, did not add water to tank; after an hour or so wait, turned it back on and all was well. I am now wondering if it may be an erratic or unpredictable wiring issue that is playing havoc with my L1... I will search the permanent files this weekend to learn more about this. Perhaps shorting in the wiring might be part or all of the problem?
the alarm sounds when the circuit is broken, the result of water in which the electrical conductivity is too low, a symptom of water that is too soft
i suggest you start by working through the list of things that can cause the low water alarm to sound, like corrosion on the brass electrodes underneath the water box that the stainless steel electrodes in the bottom of the water tank need to sit on in order to complete the electrical circuit
also check that neither of the brass electrodes have been pushed down too far, causing the springs underneath them to get trapped
and if it is an early machine - first half of 2013 and earlier - check that the wires for the low water sensor are securely screwed onto the bottom of the electrode terminals, which can be found underneath the black powder coated metal water box carrier
kind regards
reiss.
It is indeed an early 2012 machine, so perhaps that will be the answer...
thanks, once again, for your patience!
I am hoping I won’t have to consider the solenoid valve cleaning mentioned in the list of possibilities ... but if all else fails, I am of course willing to tackle another new challenge.
It is indeed an early 2012 machine, so perhaps that will be the answer... (the previous owner had it plumbed in, so I doubt the water tank option was used very much until recently).
thanks, once again, for your patience!
if the low water alarm is sounding outside of this activity an occluded solenoid is not the cause
kind regards
reiss.
(I can also see a few whitish-greenish powdery deposits on the boiler ; could those be due to the 5 grams of baking soda I have been adding to the tank recently, or perhaps they were there when I acquired the machine... I don’t know, as this is the first time I have removed side panels.)
Attached files
Attached files
things have not been modified when it has been switched back to tank mode, that is the problem
more in a moment
the wires to the low water sensor terminals have been disconnected, which now that you advise that the machine was previously plumed in, makes sense these wires need to be disconnected and joined with the bypass wire that is included in the plumb in kit, otherwise the low water alarm would keep coming on
the fact that you have the low water alarm coming on, despite the wires not being connected suggests that with any scrambling around that may have occurred under the water tank carrier over time that perhaps the bypass wire that is used to connect to two wires to the low water sensor terminals has been disconnected at one or both ends, or perhaps the bypass wire was never used?
the next step is are you able to provide an image of the bypass wire going the two wires that need to be connected to the low water terminals?
they should be lying somewhere under the water box carrier, directly below the two low water terminals, unless they have been deliberately pulled out from under the water box carrier
kind regards
reiss.
it is about 8-10cm long if that is your next question
it also has the original 20A Sirai which we have since upgraded to a 30A Sirai as it only costs slightly more and the surface area of the contacts is vastly greater, i.e. a lot more than 50% more of the 20A switch. the machine has a large group on a relatively small boiler so the pressure switch switches with much greater frequency than say on the L1/2/3 with their vastly greater boiler volumes
the rest of the machine is fine
aside from the upgrades for the early machines (on/off switch, 30A sirai, nicer safety valve) the L1(2012-16) is bombproof and will provide many many years of reliable service and enjoyment
kind regards
reiss.
disconnect it at both ends, plug the two wires that are now free with female connectors onto the two male terminals underneath the water box carrier
polarity doesnt matter - i.e. it doesnt matter which terminal the wires are connected to
check that the connections are tight
problem solved
i suspect you will no longer have to add baking soda to your water, but let us know how you get on
(I removed pstat cover to provide a clear view, but not until after I had unplugged machine.:))
I needed skinnier & longer fingers, to complete the beautifully simple task of re-attaching the wires under the tank!;) But, I think I have everything snug & ready to go now, but would like to test it before putting all 4 panels back on.
Is it safe to run machine with panels off?
it also has the original 20A Sirai which we have since upgraded to a 30A Sirai as it only costs slightly more and the surface area of the contacts is vastly greater, i.e. a lot more than 50% more of the 20A switch. the machine has a large group on a relatively small boiler so the pressure switch switches with much greater frequency than say on the L1/2/3 with their vastly greater boiler volumes
the rest of the machine is fine
aside from the upgrades for the early machines (on/off switch, 30A sirai, nicer safety valve) the L1(2012-16) is bombproof and will provide many many years of reliable service and enjoyment”
This is all very good to know, Reiss (and very reassuring, too)! I have been putting together an order, and will add these items to it; holding off submitting until I know for sure what all I will need in the year ahead, including another pf & shower screen, piston seals kit/set, etc. Doing it all in one go will help with shipping charges.... so the list is “in the works”.:)
yes, but please replace the cover on the 20A Sirai pressure first as that is switching the full electrical load of the heating element and dont leave the machine unattended if you have children or persons of limited capacity in the house
kind regards
reiss.