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Conical v Flat Burr
I know it will have been debated before, but is anyone able to convince me, as a conical owner, that I really am benefiting from something the flat burr grinders cannot produce?
People say glib comments, like you need to spend as much on your grinder as you do your machine to get the best out of it, but, in a domestic environment is that really true, or are we just really stroking our ego's?
People say glib comments, like you need to spend as much on your grinder as you do your machine to get the best out of it, but, in a domestic environment is that really true, or are we just really stroking our ego's?
Comments
The quality of the grinder is very important but there's certainly less expensive grinders that produce excellent results. Like most things we can buy, grinders fall prey to the law of diminishing returns but, if we spend $2-3K on a grinder we're going to convince ourselves that we can taste the difference.
My personal opinion is that we're going to see a lot of developments in grinders over the next few years as the technology hasn't advanced much over the years. For example, Nuova Simonelli has just announced a grinder that can both heat and cool the grinded beans so they stay within a certain temperature range. Obviously, this is overkill for domestic use but sounds promising in a busy commercial environment where the grinders are constantly running and generating a lot of heat.
The bottom-line is that if you're happy with what's in your cup then it doesn't matter how much you spent on your grinder.
Great grind quality can be had from dosered grinders, especially the big conicals like the robur, k10 barista and they cost a lot less than the OD grinders. Anyway bottom line the L1 is only as good as what you put in it!!
http://sprudge.com/nuova-simonelli-clima-pro-grinder.html
I bought one of the first run of HG one grinders which is very good but my wandering eye is now wishing the EK 43 wasn't so ugly. John Gordon has an espresso modded EK 43 that looks like it might pass the WAF test.
The HG-One is a nice grinder, but so is the Pharos if you want hand crank grinder and both are conical and can do as good job as single dosing as my Kony-E. Now if I put a hopper on the Kony, ie pressure above the bean chute, I think it works a bit better. Big dollars in the Kony.....
A flat burr grinder has good flavors and I cannot really tell a big difference. Subtle, a bit brighter possibly, but the beans have a bigger influence in flavor IMHO. I had a Ceado E-37 for a brief time and really liked the flavors of the machine along with everything except the electronics. If they straightened out the electronics I think the newer E-37s would be a super grinder. Big slow burrs and compact enough to fit under a upper cabinet. I returned the E37 and got a Versalab.
The VL fits anywhere, is basically a flat burr grinder that uses a conical top burr to break the beans and a lower flat burr to really do the grinding. The one I got from the factory was not all that accurate in burr matching(wobble), so it is now being precision fitted by Terranova. He is also adding so strength features(bigger bearings) and then some Bling:-) I suspect the Kony-E will get relegated to decaf grinding...
So, megabucks is not as necessary as precision mated grinding surfaces because in the home do we really grind pounds of coffee per hour?
Actually the climapro is a mythos! It is a derivative of the mythos, essentially the same grind path, motors and burrs and in my eyes is probably going to be over priced. I agree that finally grinder technology is moving forward and this year should be interesting. What draws you to the ugly beast? Apart from the hype
I'm drawn to the ugly beast by all the positive reviews. I was particularly impressed that Colin Harmon was able to run his busy cafe with only the EK 43 and raved about the espresso quality. It seems like a powerful and durable machine. Having said that, Colin did make a comment about the burrs being very expensive to replace and potentially getting duller faster. Not sure if anyone else has substantiated this when used for espresso. Obviously, the looks are a big drawback.
Terranova's modded VL is a thing of beauty although the price tag is a bit hard to swallow.
those of you who have been around for a while will know that 'celebrity endorsement' is an increasingly used marketing device in the coffee industry, in particular i am thinking of all the hiss & fizz around the vario when it first arrived
belt driven grinders and ceramic burrs were the future we were told. you don't hear too much about that any more
nothing wrong with that, I would just be concerned if people assumed that the commentator was independent of the product
It would be worth it to see that work of art.
When you said it cost an arm and a leg, I didn't realise you were speaking literally Stephen
When you said it cost an arm and a leg, I didn't realise you were speaking literally Stephen
A left shoulder rebuild(rotator cuff, bone spurs and arthritis) and a reattachment of the bicep tendon. I have had far worse surgeries so this is just an inconvenience. Almost lost a leg once, along with a fractured pelvis, and that took much more rehab time plus I was much younger.
Strewth Stephen, you've certainly earned a good espresso or 3. Next time I get manflu I think I'll moan less. Here's to a speedy recovery.
My local cafe has one (along with five Kony Es, a Macap M4 and a couple of deli grinders) that they're single-dosing with.
I've come away from various utterly unscientific taste comparisons with a personal preference for conicals, but the EK43 has a different taste profile than any flat burr I've come across in the past.
Strewth Stephen, you've certainly earned a good espresso or 3. Next time I get manflu I think I'll moan less. Here's to a speedy recovery.
Thanks Gino! The doc said today that I have 3 more weeks in a sling and then the rehab. In the meantime it will be playing with powered grinders only
Here is a short vid of the distribution into the pf of each
Doing this all with one had makes for poor video and poor technique but you get the idea of zero clumps while single dosing the Kony-E.
I finally got mine back from Frank Durra (Terranova on HB) and boy is it nice! Considerably more quiet, almost zero "Egg Dropping", less prone to finger prints on the brass since there is no brass now. The tower is now a Satin Black finish, NOT a wrinkle finish that collects dirt like it is a goal or something. And the final touch is zero bean popping!
Pretty happy camper here!!
Could you tell us about the taste in the cup compared to the HGone or your Kony?
Very beautiful piece of art.
Regards
Martin
Video please
TiN coated burrs.
DLC coated upper and lower cones which seem to produce zero static cling, although I did RDT the beans.
TiN bean popper ring and Cone just for a color contrast/Bling.
Polished Stainless Steel main shaft.
Polished surfaces so they are easier to clean than that stupid brushed surface that comes on the VL.
Stain Finished Tower to NOT collect dirt yet not be to shiny and and super expense.
Twin wipers in the lower Funnel.
It is more quiet and that is because the TiN burrs make the grinding easier.
The taste in the cup is more muted than the conicals, like my Kony or my HG-One. It seems to produce more caramel notes than bright fruity ones. I suspect a large flat burr might do the same thing.
I will generate a video soon and add it to this Post, although there is not much to see except beans in and grounds out.
The grounds are fluffy, like the HG-One, and not clumpy like a Kony with the static screen in place does produce. Single dose the Kony with the screen removed and they are all close to each other in fluff.
It took from 9 January to today to get the package from Germany to my door. The USPS system is NOT swift!! The box was even wet like it had sat out in the rain!
More later.
LATER: I need to tighten the grind a bit but this is the drill with my VL.