This forum is now read-only
To login to the new support channel and community forums, go to the Support Portal
Londinium R Questions
Reiss,
Great to see the new addition to the Londinium family! Since I don't have a convenient place to plumb in a machine, this seems like the perfect replacement for my current vibe pump semiautomatic. Some questions:
What is the warmup time?
Where did you find the new smaller rotary pump, or was it built to your spec?
Is the thermosiphon and heat exchanger architecture now exactly same as L IP-II-III except for the difference of pump vs line pressure preinfusion?
Does new boiler design make it possible to switch the water port and steam arm sometime later after taking delivery, or does that change need to be made when the machine is ordered and built?
After ongoing problems with two different semiautomatic machine from two different manufacturers, I'm looking forward to switching to a Londinium!
Happy holidays!
Roger Healy
Great to see the new addition to the Londinium family! Since I don't have a convenient place to plumb in a machine, this seems like the perfect replacement for my current vibe pump semiautomatic. Some questions:
What is the warmup time?
Where did you find the new smaller rotary pump, or was it built to your spec?
Is the thermosiphon and heat exchanger architecture now exactly same as L IP-II-III except for the difference of pump vs line pressure preinfusion?
Does new boiler design make it possible to switch the water port and steam arm sometime later after taking delivery, or does that change need to be made when the machine is ordered and built?
After ongoing problems with two different semiautomatic machine from two different manufacturers, I'm looking forward to switching to a Londinium!
Happy holidays!
Roger Healy
Comments
thank you for your interest
1. assume one hour warm up time, the same as all our machines (in my experience most owners put their machines on a digital timer)
2. the rotary pump is a newly released product from one of the established pump makers - as far as i am aware the LONDINIUM R will be the first espresso machine to market with this pump
3. it depends how far you take 'exactly the same'. at a conceptual level yes, but at a detailed level the LONDINIUM R uses the same horizontal heat exchanger that we used in the LONDINIUM I (2012-2016) boiler, whereas the new L1, L2, and L3 have an inclined heat exchanger and of course larger boilers
4. the boiler modifications will make it a lot easier to change the steam wand from right to left, yes, and it will also look a lot more attractive than it has in the past
kind regards
reiss.
Thanks for the explanation! A couple more:
Not sure what you meant by, "and it will also look a lot more attractive than it has in the past." Could you clarify?
Do you still recommend a 60 ml flush to restart the thermosiphon after pulling a shot? Or just a short flush to clean the screen?
With shipment to the US, will DHL call to coordinate and schedule delivery?
Looking forward to photos and videos. And exploring lever espresso with a new R!
Thanks,
Roger
- to date the plumbing of the left side steam wand option has been a bit cosmetically challenged in my view, running half a mile of copper pipe to the opposite side of the boiler. the boiler modification we have planned will tidy this up
- as ive said previously, a short flush after the shot is pulled to clean the screen would be considered best practice in most people's view i think, whether they are using a pump or lever espresso machine. if you forget to make a post shot flush our proprietary piston seals appear to prevent a thermosiphon stall, so you're covered either way
- DHL will eventually call you, but if you are in a hurry being pro-active will generally expedite the process
best
reiss.
1) How will the preinfusion pressure be user adjustable (is it from the front panel or inside the machine).
2) For US market, do you recommend the 220V version (does it provide a quicker warm-up time?)
3) Will it be possible to change the infusion temperature of the coffee and how?
4) Is it still a single coil with 6 bars peak pressure?
Regards
Martin
1. you lift the top panel off and adjust it, just as you would the pressure switch for the boiler
2. for the US market i recommend the 120V machine - that's why we make it! if you are fortunate enough to have the luxury of 240V at your disposal, then of course you would get that as there is no downside
3. changing the pre-infusion pressure changes the pre-infusion temperature
4. our single springs have always been rated at 9 bar (measurements below this indicate that not all the air has been removed when making the pressure measurement, and therefore the compressibility of the air returns an under reading of the true pressure of the spring)
kind regards
reiss.
I had the same question regarding warmup time for a 220 V machine. I'm thinking that the higher-wattage heating element primarily affects the recovery time and only minimally affects the warmup time. Most of the warmup time is simply for the group to reach thermal stability by the circulation of the thermosiphon after the boiler reaches operating pressure and temperature.
Is that correct?
Thanks,
Roger
that's exactly right
in other words, if you want to draw off half a gallon of water from the hot water tap on the boiler then yes, the 240V edition will recover much faster when the pump dumps a pile of cold water into the boiler to replenish it
but it is an espresso machine and isn't really intended to be a hot water urn
(our commercial range with the much larger boilers can cope with this kind of activity)
as an espresso machine (i.e. pulling shots & steaming milk) the 120V edition works just fine
kind regards
reiss.
Do you have a gauge or indication or do you need a scace or something alike to know how much pre-infusion pressure you are at?
The LR will ship with the PI set to 3 bar
Half a turn on the secondary pressure switch moves the PI pressure by about 1/2 a bar so no need for a gauge
If you wanted to you could screw a pressure gauge onto the bottom of a spare PF
A scace is a chocolate teapot as far as lever espresso machines are concerned - I bought one with my own hard cold cash and promptly gave it away
Reiss
Or is this machine not able to be used plumbed in ?
Is there a video where I can see and HEAR a shot ?
Thanks !
As soon as I get one, somewhere in the near future I plan to post photos and videos with audio of course, starting with the very first boiler fill. On previous machines the vibe pump would naturally take a while so this needed to be done in two steps (switching off / on) but I expect the fast rotary pump will have the boiler filled in a very short time.
I love the coffee out of my L1 serious 1, but the body is not really perfect.
But I don't want a machine with 7 l boiler.
To have control control over pre infusion would be nice, to get 60 ml at a double shot would be nice,
warming up for the cups would be nice, to take away the waste water would be nice.
So maybe, my wishes are not the same the market are asking for.
So I might have to wait for a L1 with small boiler.
That would be my dream machine.
Until this I am very satisfied with my old L1 series 1.
yes, you will be able to use the L1 plumb in kit with the L-R and bypass the pump completely
that said i have specifically released this product to deliver an L1(2017 onwards) experience to people who do not wish to plumb in (I'm one of them)
And what about the waste water ?
It seems that there are no important new opportunities to my old L1 series 1 if I I use it plumbed in ?
if you were to deploy the plumb in kit on the LONDINIUM R you would still have the ability to vary the pre-infusion pressure in the same way as if the rotary pump was still being used
you would of course have to ensure that the pressure of the water line supplying the machine was suppling water at a pressure equal or greater than the pre-infusion pressure that you had set on the machine
it is exactly the same kit as we offered for the L1, so assuming you purchased the entire kit which gives you the ability to plumb the drip tray to a waste pipe there is no issue there either
best
reiss.
Does this mean the L1 R has a closed HX like the the actual L1 wich is feeded by fresh water instead of boiler water
in my L1 generation 1 ?
yes, that's correct
Everything ok !!
the L1/2/3 all share the same architecture with approximately 7 litres of boiler per group and inclined HX tubes that run transverse across the length of the boiler. they are intended for commercial applications, and in my view a bit over the top for domestic use
the LR seeks to mimic the above design, but in a smaller footprint
so for the LR we took the L1(2012-2016) that you know and love, and removed the trombone pipe that feeds the open thermosiphon from the boiler. we capped off the boiler fitting where we removed the pipe.
then we pushed the water box as far to the right as we could to make room for the rotary pump
then we filled in the left hand side frame partially to create a surface upon which to mount the rotary pump
then we removed the piston pump and put the rotary in its place
then we removed all of the plumbing from the end of the small braided pressure hose where it meets the inlet solenoid on the L1(2012-2016), all the way to the boiler
in its place we connected the pressure hose to a manifold, just as you find on the L1/2/3
the manifold allows the cold water being delivered by the rotary pump to be split into two streams; one fills the boiler and the other fills the heat exchanger that runs longitudinally along the boiler
one of the legs of the manifold has a secondary pressure switch supplied by Ceme which allows you to alter the pre-infusion pressure if your coffee needs demand it. the machine is supplied with this pressure switch set to 3 bar
in all other respects the machine is unchanged
So I can't say what you will accomplish or taste.
I had a fantastic time with my L1, right from the start, a world of difference with the little La Pavoni's that I also am fond of. Very easy to pull beautiful soft round tasteful shots. I still also have a Giotto and with a little modification it also works very well but with less subtle taste.
The L1-P was a huge step up because more body of richer shots was possible with more ease as less 'tact/timing' was required in the entire preparation. Possible downside for average homebaristas would be the need to plumb in and out, the large size of the machine, the large in line water filter required, the line pressure to be regulated with a device, possibly a safety valve to close off the line in case of a leak etc.
And now the L-R delivers that professional size shot in the small size machine of the former L1.
If you can afford the L-R, do not hesitate and know that it will retain much of its value if handled with care. If you can find an old style L1 for a steal price, snatch it up and you may sell it again later at upgrade time. L1's might sell fast though, these days. I've had a friend ask me if I know one for sale and several have asked me if I plan to let one of my machines go.
I would sell you my pre-Xmas L1 to buy an LR. Where are you located?
Gary
Maybe you should think about spending some money more to get best non commercial L1 until now.
you can adjust this pressure switch, which i think he mentions in his video
a half turn of adjustment on the Ceme switch moves the pre-infusion pressure by about 0.7 bar i estimate
if you have a portafilter with a pressure gauge as you see in frans video you can take in instrument based approach
if you dont have one you can adjust by simple observation - 3 bar will ensure that the lever grabs at about 80 degrees below vertical when released after 3-4 seconds pre-infusion with an 18g dose
best
reiss.