L1 with HG one

Chad Hanson

Hello all. I am new to the world of home espresso and plunged in with a Londinium and HG one grinder. My question is in the proper grind with the HG one. To get a finer grind to use the light tamp method with the button tamper I'm having to make around 150-200 revolutions of the grinder handle for 16 grams of beans and a reasonable extraction time. Even with a coarser grind (still 100 revolutions) and a 30lb tamp my extraction is around 35-40 seconds before blonding. The grinder is the new TiN coated burr set, so I know it takes more revolutions, but does anyone else have any suggestions? I know quite a few guys out there have this combo of machines.

Either way, the shots are still the best I've ever tasted!

Cheers

Chad

Reiss Gunson

hi chad

with the parameters you have provided, what is the weight of the espresso that results from it?

Patrick Bennett

Chad,

I only measure my pre ground beans. I have the original smaller burr set and I only have to turn the handle max 30 times for a 16g dose. The resistance is done at about 25 revolutions... I then give the flywheel a free wheeling spin as I tap the lower funnel with my fingers. The required revolutions reports by the TiN burr owners seem almost hard to believe, are they supposed to settle down once the burrs are "Broken In"?

Chad Hanson

I haven't weighed the output of the grinder, but there is basically no grind retention with this grinder.

I'm hoping that they will break in a bit and cut my grind time down. I spend more time grinding than the rest of the process. If I change the setting to be very much more coarse then the extraction is well under 28 seconds, even with a heavy tamp.

Perhaps it is just the TiN coating. It just doesn't grab the beans as well or something.

Reiss Gunson

hi chad

we need to know the weight of the resultant espresso if we are going to be able to help you

target a shot weight of 25g i suggest

best

reiss.

Chad Hanson

Just read on the HG one site about breaking in TiN burrs with rice.
http://hg-one.com/the-hg-one-grinder/hg-101/breaking-in/

I'll give it a try and report back

Salvatore Taibi

I have HG-One 83 #70, and hearing some of the newly quoted grind-times makes me love my machine a bit more! I initially thought the TIN burrs could be a nice upgrade, but the revolutions people are talking about are a bit surreal. I just ground 15g of beans with a mere 16 revs. I hope after breaking them in a bit things quicken up. Of course, I don't think anyone buys the HG-One for the speed of grind, but rather the quality and the ability to truly single-dose.

I will say the only issue I run into is with some of the very lightest roasted SO beans. I find it can be difficult to initiate the grind, but once moving momentum helps things out.

Chad Hanson

Oh, now I understand, weight of the espresso.

Here's my last pull

16 grams of beans
160 revolutions on the grinder
32 grams of espresso in 41 seconds

Salvatore Taibi

Chad,

How did the shot turn out? I would think you could loosen the grind a bit to get closer to the range of 25-35 seconds, if you enjoy the 50% extraction ratio.

Stephen Jenner

Patrick, Chad...

I have a little video here of my HG One grinding probably around 16 gms... I was demonstrating the efficacy of my work in mounting the grinder to the work surface with some rather large allen bolts.

I counted around 23 turns or so which concurs with Patrick... Your 200 odd turns seems pretty high Chad, I am wondering whether there is something awry with either the manufacture or the set up... If I had to make that sort of effort, I reckon it would have gone straight back to Craig and Paul.

Chad Hanson

Well, after running 4 pounds of rice through it as per HG One recommends on their site and a half dozen shots later I have it dialed to a 28 second shot resulting in 32 oz of espresso. This took me 175 rotations on the grinder. I guess I need to talk to the grinder manufacturer.

Thanks for all of the input!

I'll let you all know what I eventually find out.

Chad

Patrick Bennett

Just dosed 16g
~27 seconds
38g shot weight

Unknown

My HG-One is a first batch model with standard burrs, no coatings. I have both the 71 and 83mm versions just because I was able at the time to do it and I was so conflicted with the 83 Vs. 71mm debate I thought I would just judge for myself.

The 83 seems to take slightly more cranking than the 71, Lord knows why!?! The 71mm is certainly easier to initiate the grind with S.O. light roasts.

Then the thought of the TiN coated burrs came up and naturally I just had to try them. An offer was presented to me to "Test" some "aftermarket " 83mm TiN burrs and so I did. MUCH easier to grind and the grind did seem to be more fluffy. BUT, the grind seemed to take forever!!!!! I only used them for a week on maybe 5 different beans and roasts so they certainly were not "Broken in" and no, I did not run rice through them since they were on loan to try, not from HG-One. I could not detect a difference in flavor or texture of the shot, but then again I am not cupping expert!

My overall impression of the TiN coating is that it would be great in a motorized grinder, especially the Versalab

Salvatore Taibi

Mr. Jenner,
I love the modification, and if and when my wife and I "settle down" in a somewhat permanent location, I think that will be one of the first things I do. Unfortunately work forces us to move about quite frequently at the moment.

Mr. Sweeney et al,
I find it very strange that it could take so much longer with the TIN coating. I have read some of the possible explanations, but at the same time I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what is actually taking place down at the burr level.

Unknown

Maybe the burrs are not grabbing the beans as readily? Like a super smooth surface that has a sharp edge but every other part is hyper smooth?

Stephen Jenner

Salvatore Taibi post=110 wrote: Mr. Jenner,
I love the modification, and if and when my wife and I "settle down" in a somewhat permanent location, I think that will be one of the first things I do. Unfortunately work forces us to move about quite frequently at the moment.

Mr. Sweeney et al,
I find it very strange that it could take so much longer with the TIN coating. I have read some of the possible explanations, but at the same time I guess I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what is actually taking place down at the burr level.

Mr. Taibi... Stephen please! Many thanks for your comment.

If you take a look here: http://hg-one.com/surface-mounting/ You can read the whole article... Craig Lyn, one of the owners of HG wrote to me at the time of publishing and suggested that future models of the HG One might have threaded drillings at each corner, with plastic bungs in order to give customers the option to mount or place their lovely new grinder.

Also, since you have referred to Stephen Sweeney here, it is also worth mentioning that he has also done some really good stuff with the HG One, particularly in regard to the Londinium Levers, see here: http://hg-one.com/acrylic-mods/

So, along with Reiss's great new website and owners forum, Londinium/HG One owners have another very useful site to engage with.

Chad Hanson

Well, I talked to HG one and they thought it sounded excessive too but thought they would still break in over time. I got some new beans which are smaller in size than the ones which took so many turns. These were done in 100 turns. Still quite a lot, but not horrible. I can imagine bean size would really have an effect. It sounds like the TiN coating just takes longer to grind.

Either way, I'm still quite pleased with my setup and my morning lattes are extraordinary.

thanks for everyones input.

Chad

Craig Lyn

Dipping in here quickly to say hello to everyone and let folks know we're here if you need us. Chad and I exchanged a few emails, and he's pretty much summed up the situation. It does sound a bit unusual, but on the other hand, only around 2lbs of coffee has been run through the machine. It simply might take more coffee of minute rice to get the revolutions down.

We hate to give the "take two aspirin and call us in the morning" advice but I think the burrs need a little bit more breaking in.

That said, we're happy to be here, and also post the fact that we do have a LI on premises. We've been using it as our primary test bed espresso machine since quite frankly, we think it's great.

James Springfield

I know if i add just a couple too many drops of water to the beans my grinding time goes from 30 revs to hundreds of revs and the grind is actually way too fine and chokes the l1, this is with the original uncoated burrs,
I can see the beans just swirling around the top of the burrs rather than feeding in
Do you notice this swirling with the coated burrs?

Unknown

Maybe that was why it took a long time to grind ,with the TiN coated burrs, and not feel like the beans were being grabbed by the burrs. I sure did like the ease at which they were being ground though. I use a mist spray bottle for salad oil (water only) to RDT the beans.

My home has AC Heatpump with Hepa Filters as well as Electreostatic filters and the resulting static charge in the air is pretty fierce! RDT is necessary for me otherwise I would be wearing the coffee grounds instead of packing them into a basket. Something to consider when you all are thinking about RDT and its effects on the coffee.

Danny Kahn

Wow... that would be tough to handle. As a point of comparison, I have the first round of 83mm TiN coated burrs and it is taking me ~ 45 revs for 18g. Before I ran four pounds of rice and somewhere around 20 pounds of beans, it was taking about 70-75 revs.

Unknown

Danny Kahn post=124 wrote: Wow... that would be tough to handle. As a point of comparison, I have the first round of 83mm TiN coated burrs and it is taking me ~ 45 revs for 18g. Before I ran four pounds of rice and somewhere around 20 pounds of beans, it was taking about 70-75 revs.

This was about the same difference in revs I experienced with the TiN and standard burrs although I counted 35 revs for my 83mm non-coated burr with 16g dose this morning with FC roast. Roast has a lot to do with the effort for cranking.

Chad Hanson

Thanks for chiming in Craig from HG One. You guys gave me immediate feedback when I emailed you. I definitely didn't feel like you left me hanging but gave me good advice on seasoning. Too many drops of water could definitely be one of my problems. I'll try with just a drop. When I drop the beans in 1/2 at a time it grinds quickly. I'm very impressed with the quality of the workmanship of this grinder and I'm sure I'll get it running right with more seasoning and probably less water. James' description of the beans rolling on top of the burrs with too much water describes my experience precisely.

Thanks for the input everyone

Chad

Unknown

James Springfield post=121 wrote:
Do you notice this swirling with the coated burrs?

Sorry I did not answer this sooner, I just forgot to do it!

I cannot see the beans swirling around in my HG-One since I made a different Bean Popper/Loading Cone.



Polished Feed Cone.



Satin Finish Feed Cone

Chad Hanson

Problem resolved!

James Springfield nailed it on the head. Too many drops of water. Being a complete noob i was using around 5-6 drops to RDT. With just 1-2 drops 18 G grinds away with 50-60 revolutions and still no static in extremely dry Colorado. I'm sure with further seasoning it will reduce even further, but I'm completely fine with 50-60.

Love the new cone Sweeny! I'd imagine you wouldn't get any popcorning at all! The standard isn't bad at all, just a few crumbs jumping out, but that looks perfect!

Chad

Unknown

Thanks Chad! The Loading Cones make the process go a bit more smoothly since it is almost impossible to drop beans all over the counter when fumbling around with the morning brew.

I have made them out of wood also.



Asian Ebony



Cocobolo has since darkened with age. This was my first attempt and I found I needed a taller cone to stop the bean popping, as well as a smaller through hole for the grinder shaft.

Reiss Gunson

hi chad

I'm very pleased to hear that

that is exactly how this forum should work

thank you james for your contribution

reiss.

Frans Goddijn

Yesterday, I received Stephen Sweeny's beautiful acryclic PF holder and funnel and the magnetic set to modify the HG One to accomodate this nifty innovation.

I went to a workshop to get the precise drilling done and it works great!

Thanks Stephen!

Unknown

Glad to hear that it worked out for you Frans :cheer:

Craig Lyn

I'm terrible with a hand drill, and we don't have a drill press easily accessible to us.

We're planning on pre-drilling a hole in the base of the grinder for future models to accommodate user-mods such as Stephens'.

Unknown

Craig, good idea to pre-drill for those magnets. A 1/2 inch hole 1/2 inch deep would work for a variety of items that one might possibly want to do with the HG-One. A single magnet to hold the PF Holder that you sell that easily holds the angled PF Handles and all the other PF that are not L-I PF's. Also used in the corners to locate the grinder on a bench top might also be handy

Thanks for producing such a nice product!