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US 240V Questions

Hello,

I have just about decided that my next machine will be an Londinium 1. I live in the US and am considering the 110V version vs the 240V version. I am not an electrician by any means... so I was wondering if you could help me answer a few questions.

I have an electrician coming out tomorrow to give me an estimate on what it would cost to install a 240V line / receptacle in my kitchen for the Londinium 1. The price he quotes will determine if I order the 240V machine or the 110V machine.

If I do end up ordering the 240V version, can you tell me if this combination will be sufficient?

- Simple Heavy Duty 240V / 5000W appliance timer. (More Pictures)

- NEMA 6-20R plug coming off of the Londinium 1

- NEMA 6-20R receptacle in the wall

Does anyone have a source for a 240V timer that lets you program the different days of the week? It is not a big deal, but there are a couple days during the week where it would be a luxury to program different on-off times. But I can definitely get by without it, given the short warm-up time of the L-1.

I think that's it. For now...

Thanks!
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Comments

  • It seems in Europe there are many timer switches like that, for instance this one: http://www.ritel.nl/hq-tijdschakelaar

    I hade one years ago and the user interface was a bit clumsy. An engineer had hidden all the possible configuration steps under a limited amount of buttons and display symbols. Sometimes I look for a nice replacement but on the Rocket I now just use a very simple one that does the same thing every day. Clicking in/out a new start time is easy.
  • Just my $.02 and maybe all its worth: For USA non-commercial use 110v is more than adequate and vastly simpler all the way around for most home users.
  • Thank you for the replies. I couldn't find a decent looking digital 240V appliance timer like that, but I am perfectly fine with setting the start stop times as needed with the non-digital one linked above. I just do not know much when it comes to electrical stuff, and wanted to make sure those components and plug / receptacle types would work with the Londinium 1.

    I am sure that I would be perfectly fine with the 110V version, but the garage / circuit breaker is directly on the other side of the wall where the L-1 will sit in the kitchen, so I figured it would be a pretty simple install and could not hurt just to see what it would cost me to put a 240V line / receptacle there. The only downsides I can see of going with the 240V version is that it will be married to that spot on the counter forever... Whereas I could move the 110V version around as needed in the years down the road. Also, I already have a decent digital 110V appliance timer that would work with the 110V version.

    Decisions decisions.
  • If you are always going to have 240v available I would get it. I have the "110v" machine operating on 121v and it has plenty of power for my home environment. If you are planning a lot of big parties then maybe 240v would be nice, but not necessary.
  • Stephen Sweeney post=4475 wrote: ...If you are planning a lot of big parties then maybe 240v would be nice....


    OR running off a lot of hot water - e.g. using it to make tea or soup or americanos/long blacks - where the extra 1000W kicks in is getting a large dump of cold water into the boiler back up to operating pressure quickly
  • hi allen

    to my surprise you are absolutely correct about the paucity of choice in US plug-in digital timers - i even checked on the US website for RS Components, which will usually solve most problems of this nature, but no dice

    but i did find this on Amazon and, assuming it is as described, it will work perfectly with an L1 if you screw a NEMA 6-15 plug on the end of the power cord and a NEMA 6-15 socket on the wall

    with a 240V/2400W L1 a 15A supply is more than adequate, so a NEMA 6-15 is just fine for a 240V L1 in the States

    http://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-240V-Digital-Timer-BDT-1C/dp/B002YPNGZU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406634677&sr=8-1&keywords=digital+timer+240V

    hope this is of some use

    kind regards


    reiss.
  • Reiss Gunson post=4501 wrote: [quote=Stephen Sweeney post=4475]...If you are planning a lot of big parties then maybe 240v would be nice....


    OR running off a lot of hot water - e.g. using it to make tea or soup or americanos/long blacks - where the extra 1000W kicks in is getting a large dump of cold water into the boiler back up to operating pressure quickly

    I forgot about the teapot! You certainly are correct in that account Reiss.

    My wife drinks an Americano in the mornings but she only requires 75ml of hot water in her 15.5g dose ( 27/27 rule) so it is able to recover by the time I make my morning shots.

    You will be really happy with a 240v machine if getting the power receptacle to your location is not prohibitively expensive.
  • one of the advantages of a 240V L1 is you can declutter your kitchen by disposing of your electric kettle(jug) and you never have to wait for the kettle(jug) to boil if you have a closet tea lover in the house - what a selling point for your significant tea loving other half who does not share your enthusiasm for espresso
  • Reiss Gunson post=4504 wrote: one of the advantages of a 240V L1 is you can declutter your kitchen by disposing of your electric kettle(jug) and you never have to wait for the kettle(jug) to boil if you have a closet tea lover in the house - what a selling point for your significant tea loving other half who does not share your enthusiasm for espresso

    Reiss, Frans commented in this post "If you plan to draw kettles of water all day: bad idea. It's a coffee machine, not a hot water kettle. Get one, they are cheap. Treating it as a tea kettle is torture for the machine."

    After reading that, I was concerned about using it for anything other than hot water for heating cups / americanos. My wife would like to use it for soups, etc, but I don't want to do anything that will be potentially bad for the machine. Would like to hear your thoughts.
  • ah well, frans can speak ably for himself i am sure, but i understood his comments there to mean that the espresso engineer he works with a lot there in the netherlands suggested that it probably isn't the greatest idea to draw off large amounts of water from the boiler then pump in cold water, in the sense of the thermal shock it could expose the element too

    i wouldn't dismiss this out of hand as from what frans has told me the guy is a very experienced and proficient engineer

    so i would take the middle ground, i.e. it is perfectly OK to draw off up to 1 litre of water at a time, as it leaves sufficient hot water in the boiler for the incoming cold water to mix with as it enters. bear in mind that on a tank fed machine the water is not cold either if you have had the machine on for any length of time, probably 35-40C in fact - different if you have a plumbed in machine in a cold climate when the incoming water may only be 5C, for arguments sake

    frans' point i suspect, and it is valid, is that you don't want to be drawing off so much water that the element is exposed and then dumping cold water onto the hot element repeatedly or you are likely to shorten the life of the element from the thermal shock you are repeatedly subjecting it to

    i think that is sensible, prudent advice from his friend who is clearly a very experienced espresso machine technician and has been in the game a long time
  • Reiss is right in explaining how I came to mention that.

    I was talking about pulling kettles of water. If you pull many jugs / big cups, one at a time, that's no problem.
  • That makes perfect sense. Thanks for clarifying!

    Edit: I also wanted to note that I will be using it in the tank fed configuration initially. One day would like to plumb it in, and the place I'm putting it will lend nicely to plumbing it in, but that's an issue I can address another day. For now I'm just trying to plan out the electrical stuff and actually get the machine. :)
  • Just wanted to say thanks to everyone, especially Reiss, for answering all of my questions. I had the electrician out yesterday to give me an estimate for installing a 220/240V circuit / line / receptacle / plug on the L-I.... And well, let's just say that I will be graduating from the pre-sale questions forum to the owners forum here shortly. My 240V L-I has been ordered and will be making its journey across the pond very soon! Now comes the hard part... Waiting. :woohoo:
  • Great! Your wait will be relatively short compared to the early owners' as your machine is probably already packed up and traveling ;-)

    PS I read from Reiss' reply that it's almost on its way. I fondly recall the early days when one could dream and wait much longer, then see a picture of a long row of L1's on the production line and one could imagine one of those getting ready to final assembly and shipping to ones home...
  • it won't ship today allen, but it is scheduled to leave tomorrow
    thank you for your order & posting your questions here in the pre-sales forum - thats what makes this work
    best. r
  • Allen Geddes post=4525 wrote: Just wanted to say thanks to everyone, especially Reiss, for answering all of my questions. I had the electrician out yesterday to give me an estimate for installing a 220/240V circuit / line / receptacle / plug on the L-I.... And well, let's just say that I will be graduating from the pre-sale questions forum to the owners forum here shortly. My 240V L-I has been ordered and will be making its journey across the pond very soon! Now comes the hard part... Waiting. :woohoo:

    Congratulations! I am sure we all are looking forward to your impression of the 240v model in the USA :-) Keep up Posted.

  • image
    Reiss Gunson post=4527 wrote: it won't ship today allen, but it is scheduled to leave tomorrow

    I just got the shipping notice! I won't have to look at this cardboard mockup much longer.....
  • Ha!!! I did the same thing :-) Add copious amounts of your favorite beverage to calm the nerves and you are set.
  • Comforting to know I'm not alone :D But looking back on it now, the anticipation of waiting for my LI was a sweet part of the process.

    Oh you're going to so love your LI Allen! And I, like others probably stateside, can't wait to hear your feedback on the 240v variant.
  • It is here! And looks a bit better on the counter than my cardboard mockup... :lol:

    http://i.imgur.com/X6wOKQh.jpg

    I had a few issues with DHL... A couple of times they were waiting on me for something, but the tracking status would not indicate that anywhere, so I had no idea. In both instances, I just called them up after a period of inactivity on the tracking status site, and they stated that they needed information from me for customs or something before the shipment could proceed. Glad I called, otherwise it might still be sitting in the customs warehouse waiting on me. And then I had to pay $87.63 in duties / taxes before they would deliver it... Again, no indicator of that whatsoever on the tracking site. It just said that it had arrived in the Orlando facility. After a full day with no updates, I called to see if it was out for delivery or what, and they said that they were waiting on me to pay the outstanding balance. So I actually drove out to the hub last night to settle up and pick it up, instead of waiting for it to be delivered sometime today.

    I spent a couple hours taking my time unpacking and assembling everything. This thing is built like a tank!

    A few questions:

    1 - Is the included water filter optional or essential? The reason I ask is because I'm carefully measuring my espresso water before adding it to the reservoir. I start with reverse osmosis water and then add in my favorite tasting spring water until it reads 50-60 ppm on my digital TDS meter. Would like to skip further filtering of that water if possible.

    2 - What is the best way to keep the machine surface nice and shiny / polished! Just water / cloth, or is there a certain cleaning agent I should be using? Certain type of cloth? Same for the brass on the tamper. It looks a bit tarnished and I'd like to clean it up.

    The electrician is coming out today to install the new receptacle / plug. So hopefully I'll be in business tonight / tomorrow!

    This thing is beautiful - if it performs half as well as it looks, I will be a happy camper. Thanks Reiss!
  • hi allen

    thank you for taking the time to post. yes, its true, the DHL site does not communicate well the step where you need to be ringing up DHL with your credit card to pay any duty & tax due, but its a one-off pain that is a bit unavoidable when buying goods online

    1. the filter softener is optional, but ensures protection against limescale formation if it is replaced at the correct intervals for any given number of litres treated for a given level of hardness. ps - nb see elsewhere on this site for discussion on TDS vs total temporary hardness - two quite different things & TDS of 50-60 ppm could be too soft if your water contained significant dissolved solids other than calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate

    2. microfibre cloth

    2.1 any copper or brass polish followed by a thorough rinse off in cold water and then throughly dried (unscrew the bass from the handle so you keep the handle dry and free from metal polish)

    hope it all goes well with the electrician - ours arrived this afternoon to wire up our new workshop roastery and are back tomorrow too

    thank you for your order

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • Congratulations!

    I use 'microfiber' cloth to clean the shiny metal skin of the machine, a spray from the supermarket for glass & kitchen steel, and "Pledge Electronics" spray "streak free shine".

    I'm not someone who manages to keep a shiny steel surface in mint condition though. My son in law is brilliant with that. His Rocket machine is still as new as it came from the factory and he uses it every day. He carefully keeps it absolutely clean and untarnished too and routinely cuts a disposable kitchen towel to exactly fit the front of the machine so any coffee splatter hits the paper and gets thrown away before staining anything whatsoever.
  • Reiss Gunson post=4650 wrote:
    1. the filter softener is optional, but ensures protection against limescale formation if it is replaced at the correct intervals for any given number of litres treated for a given level of hardness. ps - nb see elsewhere on this site for discussion on TDS vs total temporary hardness - two quite different things & TDS of 50-60 ppm could be too soft if your water contained significant dissolved solids other than calcium carbonate or magnesium carbonate

    Thank you. It appears I have some more reading to do. I have no problem using the supplied water filter - I just thought it might make the water too soft, since I'm already filtering the water (RO) before adding it to the machine.

    I also have these test strips, which test for Total Alkalinity. Would that give me an indicator of calcium carbonate / magnesium carbonate levels?

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003TQM9XS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Frans, thank you - I was doing a bit of reading, and some on HB suggested barkeepers friend for cleaning / polishing the steel. I have some of that at home, so may give that a shot, though I need to make sure it's non-abrasive. (I think there are a couple different barkeepers friend products, if I'm not mistaken.)
  • hi allen
    you totally do not have to use the cartridge supplied, all I'm saying is be aware that people commonly pick up on TDS as a measure for calcium and magnesium deposits and it just isn't the correct metric
    TDS = total dissolved solids, and as the name suggests that means the weight of all the solids that are dissolved in the water, ideally measured by a boil off whereby you would take 1 litre of the water then boiler it off and weigh the dry solids that remained after all the water had been evaporated
    Total temporary hardness is the measure you want, which is a subset of the TDS value
    Total temporary hardness for all practical purposes means the total of magnesium carbonate and the total of calcium carbonate present
    The only time when the TDS value would equal the total temporary hardness value would be if you used reverse osmosis (RO) to strip the TDS value to zero, then passed the water through a re-mineralisation filter, ideally a 50/50 mix of calcium carbonate & magnesia carbonate, and then the post remineralisation TDS value would equal the total temporary hardness value
    at all other times the total temporary hardness value will be less than the TDS value, and some extreme cases only a small portion of the TDS value

    i haven't used the strips you refer to, but my expectation is they will be lack sufficient accuracy for espresso machine purposes

    if you type 'hach' into the search field of this website you will see a US product that i have used in the past which i think you will find a lot more satisfactory. failing that, we also offer a total temporary hardness test kit

    the barkeeper's friend products are highly regarded, although i have not used them myself ~ for some reason my puerile mind can not shake the image of a buxom young lass whenever i hear the words 'barkeeper's friend', but thats just me!

    kind regards


    reiss.
  • And here I was, thinking I had the water variable all figured out. But now, I'm worried about ruining my boiler with too low of magnesium carbonate and calcium carbonate levels. Is that a real concern, with my current method of adding spring water to RO water?

    I may try and go to a local aquarium store and see if I can buy a total temporary hardness test kit, or have them test the water for me.
  • hi allen
    it is most likely fine - all I'm doing is pointing out the traps to ensure that you are measuring what you think you are measuring
    i think there is merit in getting the total temporary hardness - which i think might also be referred to as alkalinity from memory, but id have to check, accurately measured
    if the water isn't hard enough your espresso will taste overly bright and edgy (less than 30mg/L), and obviously if it is too hard (greater than 80mg/L) deposits of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate form
    best
    reiss.
  • Allen,
    I am not a water expert...far from it. But from what I've learned you will also want to check your pH and alkalinity of the water going into your espresso machine. Too low, and your water can act corrosively to the brass and copper components.
  • Thanks Reiss, I sincerely appreciate your input and enlightenment on the subject. I did think I was fine just looking at overall TDS levels, so I am glad I brought it up!
  • Dan Streight post=4663 wrote: Allen,
    I am not a water expert...far from it. But from what I've learned you will also want to check your pH and alkalinity of the water going into your espresso machine. Too low, and your water can act corrosively to the brass and copper components.

    I did dip one of those test strips (link in a previous post) in my mixed water concoction, and I believe the pH level was 6.8, and alkalinity seemed to be within acceptable ranges... but I'm going to try and conduct a more precise test.
  • Allen, glad to hear that you finally received your new machine :-) DHL is not very good with communication and what they charge for the Taxes and Fees are not consistent. My newspaper carrier is more informative...
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