Is the beep/alarm supposed to sound while heating?

George Van Wagner

Subject pretty much says it all. Got it home, did all the setup, got it up to pressure, heard a hiss and noticed it was cycling very quickly, did the tap the anti-vac nipple, turn the pressure release valve routine and the hiss went away and cycling is at about 60 seconds off, 7 seconds on.

But, every time the heater cycles on, the beep/alarm sounds until the heater cycles off. Is it suppose to do that? If so, that could get annoying quite quickly. If not, what's the issue and how do I fix it?

Pulled a shot with 15.8g of a sun-dried Tanzanian Mbosi about 10 days off roast. Ran just a little fast, not too much (have to tighten up the grind a hair), but was still very tasty. Can't afford to pull too many shots tonight, or I'll never get to sleep.

Ian Densie

George

I'm pretty sure it's not suppose to do that! Well, mine doesn't

The only time the alarm sounds is on startup after the pump has run for a long time to fill the boiler or if I forget to top up the water tank and it runs short.

Unfortunately I don't know how to fix it or what the answer is? Luckily Reiss should be out of bed any time soon and checking his emails and you will have a knowledgeable reply in no time.

Have fun with your L1.

Cheers.
Ian

Reiss Gunson

hi george

the alarm should only come on if the pump is unable to fill the boiler to the upper fill switch within i think 30 seconds

let me know how it is today

kind regards


reiss.

George Van Wagner

Left it on overnight so I could pull a shot when I got up. Same problem. When the heater is on, the rhythmic "beep-beep-beep … " keeps sounding, and shuts off when the heater shuts off. Boiler appears fo fill fine and, on the initial fill, the amount the water level in the tank went down seems commensurate with the stated (2.3L) capacity of the boiler. Everything else seems to be functioning perfectly. Problems in the wiring harness? Won't be able to do anything on it as tonight we've got a CERT (neighborhood emergency/disaster response training) class and I'll be getting home just about bedtime. That does give you some time to scratch your head and consult with the engineers.

Reiss Gunson

hi george

can we do a Skype or Facetime video call? you choose the time

you say you have left the machine on, have you tried turning it off for a minute and then turning it back on?

i would also pull the water box out and put it back in again to ensure the water box is in contact with the probes in the bottom of the water box

it doesn't make much sense as the alarm sounding will typically switch the machine off - I've certainly not heard of this scenario before

kind regards




reiss.

George Van Wagner

Yes, I did the power down wait 30 seconds, power back up several times in an attempt to reset the alarm. No change iin behavior. On initial fill, I did get the pump timeout shutdown/alarm once, did the recycle, and it finished filling, then started beeping when the red heater light came on. It was at that point that I did the attempts to reset the alarm, with no positive resolution. At the end of the heating cycle, it stopped beeping. Everytime the red light goes on to indicate heater power, the beeping starts again. I also did the off/wait/on cycle a couple of times since then with no change in behavior.

This is why companies for whom I've beta-tested hardware and software have a love/hate relationship with me — stuff happens to me that doesn't happen elsewhere.

Assuming that you need me at the machine for Skype/Facetime, The first time I'll have avaliable that's not the middle of the night for you, and with time to troubleshoot, will be Saturday morning about 1500 GMT. I'll have a multimeter available and whatever other tools you might think necessary. I'll cycle the machine a couple of times between now and then to see if the problem persists.

Reiss Gunson

hi george

as soon as i have something intelligent to say i will - currently awaiting answers

best

reiss.

George Van Wagner

Reiss Gunson post=2753 wrote: hi george

as soon as i have something intelligent to say i will - currently awaiting answers

best

reiss.

If only more of us lived by these words of wisdom, the world would be a much saner place.

George Van Wagner

Just to show that everything else seems to be working.

Reiss Gunson

that's enormously helpful! thank you so much

that isn't the water alarm

its an alarm, but not one i have heard before

i can now forward this link to the manufacturer

thank you for helping me to help you - words are as good as useless for these issues and almost always result in both sides getting hot & bothered

this is the way to go!

r.

Reiss Gunson

not sure if it is by design, or just good luck, but having the signal lights reflected on the group is really helpful - it provides evidence that what you say is happening is exactly what is happening

thanks!

r.

George Van Wagner

A little of both. I realized after I started shooting that this angle would do that.

Reiss Gunson

and the news is... the manufacturer's understanding is the same as mine; i.e. they are/were only aware of that Gicar control box having one alarm, being the low water alarm, and the noise in the video is not the low water alarm

they have contacted the manufacturers of the Gicar control box for an explanation

i expect we will not get a response until next week, but i will obviously update you if i hear back today

kind regards


reiss.

George Van Wagner

Of course. See my last comment to Kelsey on the "Odd Forum Behavior" thread.

If there's a wiring diagram with color code, etc. to be had (pdf or such), I would be glad to disconnect the machine from the mains, pop the side panels, and verify wiring. My suspicion is that it's a wire connected to a terminal it shouldn't be. Or at the very least, I can provide you with a photo of the connection bus on the Gicar.

Reiss Gunson

An image of which wires are going where on your Gicar would be a smart way to proceed I think

If nothing else it is something I can respond to without waiting for answers from third parties

George Van Wagner

Flickr Set
Here's a few shots I uploaded to Flickr. I notice there's one wire that's not connected to anything, but maybe that's a normal part of the wiring harness.

Frans Goddijn

I don't seem to have a loose one.

George Van Wagner

There are actually two wires not connected to anything tied off in the harness. My best guess is that it's a standard preassembled wiring harness that Fracino uses in a number of machines they manufacture, and those two are not needed for the L1. I don't see any obvious place where they would connect to anything.

Frans Goddijn

It would be most practical if someone with another recent pop-off panel version made some close up pictures too. My glass side panels can be taken off but it's a lot of work compared to the pop-off panel versions. Plus it's possible that since my very early machine the wiring has changed and mine has the internal lights so the wiring would look a little different anyway.

Reiss Gunson

hi george

just checked mine

i can confirm i have the same number of wires as yours (5 on one side, 3 on the other) of the same colours, plugged into the same positions on the Gicar

i don't have the 'spare' wire, but then mine is the prototype and there is a high probability that it may differ from production units in these kind of details - e.g. they are likely to now be using a loom that can be used across a number of machines, not just the L1

i have spoken with the manufacturer today and they are quite clear that if any of the wires were disconnected to the Gicar or connected into the wrong positions that the machine would not function, which it is in their view, apart from the unknown alarm

the alarm issue they are still awaiting a response from the manufacturer of the control unit

more next week!

reiss.

George Van Wagner

Well, the espresso is so good that I'll put up with the beeping for a few days. Finishing up the last of the sun-dried Tanzanian Mbosi I rooasted 12 days ago, with some Ethiiopian natural Sidamo from the Adulina Co-op waiting in the wings. Plus, since it's going to be a busy weekend and I likely won't have time to roast for my wife's drip/pourover over the next few days, picked up a bag of a very nice Burundi that a local roaster does (they say they're on their last 2.5kg, so I couldn't pass it up) and a nice Costa Rican.

We've had some exceptional Africans this year, I believe.

Reiss Gunson

the unconnected plug is legacy - from the luxe - it was used to power the internal light strip

so it is correct for it to be 'hanging free'

still awaiting response from Gicar

best

reiss

George Van Wagner

On reflection, I figured it was something like that.

Hope Gicar has an answer fairly soon, as the beeping gets on my wife's nerves a little (not having spent years on the road playing guitar with various bands, her high-frequency hearing seems more acute than mine - go figure), though the quality of the espresso makes up for it somewhat.

If you need a clearer video focusing specifically on relationship between heater and beeping, let me know and I'll shoot some tonight when I get home from work.

Reiss Gunson

no, i think your video is exceptional for illustrating the issue, as i said earlier

its par for the course in dealing with our european cousins I'm afraid

as soon as we hear from them we can offer a solution

kind regards

reiss.

Unknown

George: I do not know if this is of help because it is an older version (original version) of the L-I.

George Van Wagner

Thanks, Stephen! It does verify that the wire colors in the loom are consistent across voltages, as you have the 230v Gicar and I have the 115v, and they're going to the same terminals on the controller. So that tells us it's not miswired, at least on this end. Which reminds me of the story of Calvin Coolidge taking a train trip through ranching country. His traveling companion looked out the window and said, "Look, Mr. President! Those sheep are all freshlly shorn." Coolidge looked up, gazed out the window for a moment and said, "At least on this side."

Unknown

Interesting to know that you have a 115v Gicar. My machine is sold as a "110v Version".

I like the C. Coolidge quote :-)

George Van Wagner

Looking at your photo above, yours is showing as an RL 30 Micro ST 240v code 9.1.41.88G. Looking at the Flickr set I posted a link to above, mine is an RL 30 Micro ST 115v code 9.1.40.54G. Sure makes me wish I had a key to Gicar's code system.

Reiss Gunson

Hi George

News just in;

'I have had a reply back from Gicar and they have asked that the customer checks the earth connection to the machine as it is some form of external noise that is effecting the level control. Do they have a fridge on the same circuit as the compressors can cause problems.'


What are your thoughts on that? Relevant?

Ps - the reference to level control is talking about the Gicar's ability to control the max and minimum water levels in your boiler

Let me know

Reiss

George Van Wagner

Fridge on a different circuit, and I'd question that since there's no correleation between the fridge compressor being running or not and the beeping, as the beeping happens every time the heater element is on, whether the compressor is running or not.

Are they referring to the internal earth in the machine or the house ground? I'm out of here for work in a couple of minutes, so it may be tonight before I can start mucking about with where stuff is plugged in, as well as getting out my handy Woodhead tester.

George Van Wagner

Okay—got it sorted. It's kind of an odd one and not the solution I would have especially wanted. I had the L! and my grinder plugged into the same outlet, through a heavy duty outlet strip plugged into a Kill-a-Watt power monitor so I could track electrical usage. Plugged the L1 straight into the mains, beep goes away. insert the Kill-a-Watt, beep comes back. So something in the circuitry of the Kill-a-Watt seems to be messing with the level controller. Looks as if I'll have to give up OCD tracking of electrical usage and just comfort myself with truly spectacular espresso.

So my question would be, is anyone successfully running an L1 with a Kill-a-Watt? Maybe I just need to swap mine out for a newer one (I've had this one for 4 or 5 years).