This forum is now read-only
To login to the new support channel and community forums, go to the Support Portal
water temp
Hi!
I've searched all over and only come up with very long technical answers.
I'm trying to figure out if the water coming out of the machine is hot enough for optimal espresso.
Is there a simple way I can measure for this without group probes, gadgets, etc?
I pulled for some water this morn in an espresso cup and I believe the hottest I could get was 140F with my manual food probe thermometer (ex shown below)
I really appreciate help with this!!
~Joe
I've searched all over and only come up with very long technical answers.
I'm trying to figure out if the water coming out of the machine is hot enough for optimal espresso.
Is there a simple way I can measure for this without group probes, gadgets, etc?
I pulled for some water this morn in an espresso cup and I believe the hottest I could get was 140F with my manual food probe thermometer (ex shown below)
I really appreciate help with this!!
~Joe
Comments
Yes, tasting it. If you use a small low-weight cup that's not stone cold, you can taste the espresso right after you pulled it. It could be a little too hot for your lips or lukewarm.
Also the taste of the espresso can tell you if you extracted enough, if you know what the beans you use should yield in taste.
This low-tech sensory 'measurement' requires a bit more experience but if you order an espresso you like in a cafe near by, buy those beans and compare it at home, that tells you something.
It's usually not that hot, however, I do get quality tasting shots most of the time.
Just wondering if I need to adjust the machine after having it for 6 years.
Which machine exactly? The first generation L1, or the other one group machine that was called L1-P at the time and is now L1, or one of the multi group machines?
The L1P wasn't even available yet or for some time after I purchased.
It was around 6 years ago when I bought my L1.
the only thing to check is that the boiler pressure is still switching at the same pressure and that in less than 30 minutes after switching your machine off that the anti-vac valve has fallen from the up (closed) position into the down (open) position
if the anti vac is not falling every time the machine is switched off it means it is not functioning reliably and then the performance of the machine will become very erratic, including running cool
can you please test that first?
after that i would start by measuring the temperature out of the hot water tap on the machine, rather than the group - if you have got the 'normal' pressure showing on the gauge of your machine you should get water that is coming out of the water wand hot enough to be spitting and steaming after a while as it is held in the boiler at well above 100C and with the drop in pressure to ambient it is going to be boiling off once the valve heats up having had a volume of water run through it
finally, have you got hard water where you live and have you been putting it into your machine? it is pretty difficult not to notice hard water if you have it as limescale deposits will form on all your tap ware and in the bottom of your electric jug/kettle if you have one - these look like cement deposits and are almost as difficult to remove
let us know
kind regards
reiss.
then carefully pour the hot water in the mug into the drip tray and quickly place the still very hot mug and thermometer under the group and pull some hot water from the group into the mug while the mug and thermometer are still both super hot
take care not to burn yourself, but i think you will obtain a much higher reading with this approach
Glad to hear back from you, your always A1 with customer service.
I'll go through the checklist when I get home, of course my machine is set to wake up much earlier than me everyday with my WEMO timer.
I'll get back to you as soon as I can!
~Joe
Using a bottomless portafilter I cut down and inserted a polystyrene cup through the top so it sticks out of the base. Topside of the portafilter looks normal (so it fits ok into the group) but bottom side has the bottom of a cup sticking out. This acts as a container to hold the water exiting the group. Through the wall of the cup I then stick a food probe which handily has a sharp ish end.
The polystyrene is water tight (almost) around the thermometer and it doesn't lose heat so you get a more accurate temp reading of the water as it leaves the group. I found that there was a big difference just putting the cup on the drip tray and letting the water fall into it (something like 10 degrees c from memory).
I needed a couple of tries to get the cup fit correct and had to be careful not to let too much water through the group otherwise the pressure pops the cup out of the open portafilter end. It was accurate enough that I could match changes in the cup reading to changes in the PID I had fitted. Only trouble was I had to buy a pack of 50 cups so was left with 47 sitting in the corner of my study.
Well here's what I found.
I had the L1 on for about an hour and a half, poured water in the mug from the left water spout, 180F.
I then waited for the red light to go off, reused the same mug and could only get about 140F.
Either way the water temp seems good for the most part.
The anti vac, however, did not drop after 35 min so I gave it a small nudge and it fell down.
The following morning my L1 heated up, but it was behaving a lot different.
The anti vac seems to keep hissing and the red light comes once per a minute.
My espresso came out great and it was a lot hotter.
I also noticed something else with the top and walls off of the unit-
There seems to be some sort of slow leak coming from the back right side and there is some white corrosion near the boiler-
Is this from hard water deposits? I have the unit plumbed in, but the water passes through a softener plus filter.
I made a video trying to demonstrate everything just in case.
Thanks!
~Joe
[video width=425 height=344 type=]
ignore the mineral deposits around the element - this is a fairly common occurrence and it is a more trouble than it is worth to remedy (element out) - you have water very slowly making its way through the element gasket, slowly enough that it evaporates rather than actually appear as a liquid outside the gasket and the minerals in the water are left behind, which is what you are seeing - no harm will result - it doesnt indicate hard water it is simply all the things that make up the total dissolved solids (TDS) value for your water precipitating out. Only reverse osmosis water has a TDS = 0 and you dont want that in your espresso machine or the level sensor will cease to function reliably
the issue you need to address, and you can see it at about the 33rd second in your clip is the safety valve leaking (the hiss, and you can see the mineral deposits down the side of the valve at 33s too) and your anti-vac valve is stuffed - we have a new design of safety valve introduced around the end of 2016 and it is awesome
if you ever need to trace the source of a hiss/leak in the future take a cardboard tube from a roll of cling film or similar and place one end of the tube to the suspected source of the leak and the other end to your ear. this method works every time.
if you have got the original 20A Sirai on then given the age of the machine i would suggest you order a 30A Sirai at the same time and stick it in the drawer as the 20A will probably fail in the next year or so i expect, depending on how much your machine is on whereas the 30A switches go for much longer as the surface area of the contacts is exponentially larger than the 20A
it is the sticking anti vac that is causing your machine to behave erratically - these are a service item and easy to replace
be sure to use a set spanner/wrench (please never put an adjustable wrench near your londinium) and the hit the end of the spanner with a steel headed hammer
i am more than happy to supervise the changing over of these valves via FaceTime or WhatsApps HD video
kind regards
reiss.
got it, looks like I need to order some parts.
I will go ahead and order them, but I want to make sure I'm ordering everything I need.
I'll check the Sirai and see which one I have, if it's the 20a I'll order the 30a.
I also need the anti-vac valve so that's a total of 2 items, correct?
Also, I'm going to attach another video I made this morning just to be safe.
It really sounds like the hiss is coming from underneath? I'm fairly certain the anti-vac is at the top left when I'm facing the machine?
Thanks for all the help, hopefully I'll be able to connect with you to change out the parts.
I'm usually available on weds or thurs.
[video width=425 height=344 type=]
a safety valve too
**the issue you need to address, and you can see it at about the 33rd second in your clip is the safety valve leaking (the hiss, and you can see the mineral deposits down the side of the valve at 33s too)**
i dont believe you need the Sirai immediately but you will be charged the same amount for shipping whether you order it or not so me personally would order it now and stick it in the drawer for the not too far off day when the 20A pressure switch fails. if you have a 30A already then obviously dont order another as they last for years
using a video to indicate the source of a leak is hopeless im afraid - please follow the method i described in my previous post
***if you ever need to trace the source of a hiss/leak in the future take a cardboard tube from a roll of cling film or similar and place one end of the tube to the suspected source of the leak and the other end to your ear. this method works every time.***
kind regards
reiss.
Here are the links to what I'm putting in my cart.
safety valve
30amp Sirai
anti vac
Just want to be sure- thanks!
if you want an easy life i would add this too;
https://londiniumespresso.com/store/espresso-machine-parts/loxeal-55-03-10ml
one drop near but not at the bottom of the thread and another drop 180 degrees on the opposite side of the thread is all you need - 10mL will last you many years and can be used on other applications where nuts may vibrate loose or must hold moderate pressure
otherwise you will need 6 turns of plumber's ptfe thread tape turned onto the thread in a clockwise direction
kind regards
reiss.
Well I'll have to go to the hardware to get a spanner wrench and I suppose I'll be seeking you out via video chat soon.
~joe
If you want to actually measure then buy a Scace. I have one, but have never used it on my machine, since what is in the cup is delicious.
Rob
Can you recommend what will work best for all the repairs?
update**
I've located the hiss and I'm pretty sure its the boiler itself, see video below, also I can feel a sharp point of heat where this is coming from..
I've already purchased all the parts, but maybe I need a new boiler too?
[video width=425 height=344 type=]
unless you want to mash up every nut you touch, please do not use an adjustable wrench
a set of metric wrenches to cover the mainstream sizes and then one or two large wrenches as you need them are not expensive these days and are of adequate quality assuming you don't get the absolute bargain bin editions
i have received your order, thank you
i will add an element gasket to your order and if you can purchase a 38mm socket we can remove the element, scrub down the outside of your boiler, change the gasket, and screw the element back in: no need for a new boiler
kind regards
reiss.
https://londiniumespresso.com/store/espresso-machine-parts/38mm-deep-socket
note that it runs on a 3/4" drive
we also offer an adaptor to drop you down from the 3/4" drive to 1/2";
https://londiniumespresso.com/store/espresso-machine-parts/3-4-to-1-2-drive-adaptor-for-38mm-socket
the reason for this is a lot more people will have a 1/2" socket set, but we were only able to source a 3/4" drive 38mm socket as it is a big lump designed for taking wheel nuts off trucks i think/or similar
reiss.
Your an inspiration for all of us in customer service.
Yes, I had a feeling there would be some special tool I would need and being in the USA metric tools that are used on the Londinium machines were hard to find for me too in previous issues I had plumbing in and changing to wenge handle on the portafilter.
I suppose I'll look for those sockets and I already own a set, but if I can't find something close I would most definitely invest in having them so I can do future repairs.
~Joe
Received my parts today, I checked the box thrice, but it doesn't seem to have the element gasket in it.
I have no problem purchasing it and waiting for it so that I'll have everything ready for all the fixes I need.
Is this it here https://londiniumespresso.com/store/element-gasket
Also, I found the socket at a local auto parts chain, it was only 20ish usd!
Best,
~Joe
Well I received the gasket and I have my 38mm socket, I suppose I'd prefer to communicate via face book messenger.
Is there any prep work I should do to the machine before so as to not tie you up too long?
start by reading this post in the permanent file; https://londiniumespresso.com/forum/permanent-file/715-changing-the-immersion-element
messenger isnt ideal, but we can try
let me know when it suits you
kind regards
reiss.
I'll use skype to make the most of this.
Thanks for the link, I managed to get the element out, however the inside of my boiler isn't the nice coppery color yours is in the photo, but rather a bit tarnished brownish color.
At any rate, I'd like your opinion of what you see and any other guidance to the other parts minus the led light.
How do I find you on skype?
I'm free tomorrow around 9p eastern time in the USA, I'm not sure what's best for you being that your literally half way around the world now, New Zealand right?
I abandoned my Skype account some years back because the video quality wasn’t HD, which is a real issue when we are trying to share detailed images
I suggest FaceTime if you’ve got an Apple device or WhatsApp if you have not as they both offer HD video
Let me know which suits you and I’ll provide the contact info
NZ time available on the world clock on your phone I’m sure
Best
Reiss
I see its around 4p over there.