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LR defect triggering earth leakage switch
Hi there,
This morning I changed the water filter of my Londinium R before switching on the machine.
After 10 min of warmup, the electricity in my home went out. It turned out to be the 'aardlekschakelaar' or earth leakage switch
triggering due to something in the LR.
There was a little bit of splashed water on the bottom of the machine, but nothing else. But even after drying everything
the earth leakage switch immediately triggers when I turn on the power.
Can somebody help me track down the problem?
This morning I changed the water filter of my Londinium R before switching on the machine.
After 10 min of warmup, the electricity in my home went out. It turned out to be the 'aardlekschakelaar' or earth leakage switch
triggering due to something in the LR.
There was a little bit of splashed water on the bottom of the machine, but nothing else. But even after drying everything
the earth leakage switch immediately triggers when I turn on the power.
Can somebody help me track down the problem?
Comments
thank you for your post. can you please clarify something; why does all the power in your house go out when the RCD trips? it is usual to have the wiring in the house divided up into zones so you dont lose all the power in the house when a device trips an RCD
secondly, you say that 10 minutes passed after you turned the machine on before the RCD tripped. If it is due to you splashing water around under the casing i would expect it to trip instantly
in the interests of doing the easiest thing first, if it was me i would start by plugging to a different electrical socket, most easily achieved by running an extension lead to another socket and leaving the coffee machine where it is
my final initial thought would be, have you recently made any change to the 'system'. i.e. have you added a timer between the socket and the plug for the machine, or some kind of energy usage monitoring device, or wemo? has the machine been dropped or the power cable yanked?
im off to sleep now but ill check back in tomorrow morning as usual
kind regards
reiss.
It wasn't the complete house, but our RCD is connected to almost half the outlets in the house.
Not sure what caused the delay, maybe the splashed water dripped downward during that time.
I am going to buy a grounded extension cord if needed, but if it a: does trip the RCD again (as I expect it to)
I still have no idea which part is faulty, and b: if it doesn't I do not know if the housing is safe to touch.
Is there a way to track down where the shorting happened?
after you have tried plugging into a socket that is connected to a different RCD - it wouldn't be the first RCD in history that has been a bit too trigger happy - i would unplug the machine from the power supply and remove the top, left, right, and back panels
i would then take a hair dryer and start moving it around over the wiring to evaporate off any water, starting at the most likely place which is the vertical drop from around the perimeter of the water box, although it may have also travelled along the underside of the top panel from the water box opening and then poured down in another area of the machine
check also the low water sensor wires that connect to the terminals under the black metal water box carrier - to do this use the torch on your phone to shine light in under the water box from the back & side where the pump is - there is a small gap there. that is also where you should direct the hot air from the hair dryer
i think it goes without saying, do not be tempted to speed things up with something more powerful like a heat gun as components will be damaged
after that i would place the machine somewhere where children/others can not meddle with it that is warm and has good air flow (not a cupboard or small room) and leave the panels off for the remainder of the weekend and try it monday after it has dried out
kind regards
reiss.
at all. the only place were there was some water yesterday was on the bottom just near the pump. It is gone now. Most other parts of the
inside are even a bit dusty, so certainly no water!
Still the RCD trips when switching on the LR on every outlet I tested.
Some part broke down and I would like some help locating it so that I can make coffee again!
Kind regards
Reiss
How are you getting on?
Kind regards
Reiss
photo of the inside of the cover where you can clearly see the stain.
No sign of moisture at all, but this doesn't look right also... :dry:
and chance of some more images of the pressure switch looking from the other side?
that burnt material you see there is to be expected as the contacts are basically acting like a spark eroder, i.e. a small amount of material on the contacts is being vapourised each time the contact set closes
what i am surprised about is that there is not an equal amount of this vapourised material being deposited around both pairs of contacts that are wired in
so what i am keen to see is that both sets of contacts have wires firmly screwed down onto them as your image suggested that only one pair of contacts is carrying any electrical load
it is probably also useful at this point to leave the cover off the pressure switch, remove any hands and tools from the machine, plug the machine in and turn it on and observe the action of the switch as it opens and closes
if it is functioning correctly you should see sparks on the 1st & 3rd pair of contacts and nothing in the middle pair as they are not wired in
if only one pair is producing a spark/signs of electrical life when opening and closing we have an issue there
if one of the screws has rattled loose on one of the contacts and fallen into the body of the switch this is likely to be the cause of the electrical short - let the machine run until it trips the RCD - i think there is a good chance you may see some smoke/similar rise up from the switch
i look forward to some more images
kind regards
reiss.
Plugging it in again involves a walk down the stairs to reset the RCD every time I try something with the LR
so I what am I looking for precisely in the split second it takes to trip the RCD?
fair enough. let me get a new Sirai heading your way today as its all it can be
i will send it to the same address as i sent your machine to
if you would like it sent elsewhere please email me
if you would like assistance to swap out the Sirai please FaceTime or Skype me when the replacement arrives
kind regards
reiss.
I hope it is indeed the Sirai.
The address is still the same, I already got the shipment advisory from DHL.
time with the patient the past two days, I hope/intend to look at the LR again this evening
Can the sirai switch be exchanged as easily as the secondary pressere switch? Any caveats?
very straight forward, just unscrew a wire on the old pressure switch and secure it in the same place on the new pressure switch
the only caveat is the standard one when working on any espresso machine boiler and that is to strike the wrench/spanner with a hammer repeatedly to shock the threads apart until you feel it come free
do not simply put the wrench/spanner on the nut and starting pulling harder and harder or you will twist the boiler, the remedy for which is a new boiler
it may seem counter intuitive, but it is a critical bit of know-how when loosening or tightening any fittings on the boiler
when tightening the new fitting turn it down with the spanner until you feel it starting to reach the end of the thread. then strike the spanner once with the hammer; the spanner will turn a long way with almost no resistance. strike the spanner a second time with the hammer and you will feel the drag of the thread arresting the rotation of the spanner. strike the spanner a third time with the hammer and it will come up tight. Stop at that point. A further strike with the hammer on the spanner is likely to rupture the threads.
kind regards
reiss.
Before removing the old sirai I tried switching the machine on again. It started to warm up for about a minute (that was a change from the previous switching on trials) but just then it did again trip the RCD and at the same time started dripping from the secondary pressure switch
Quite fast also, about a drop per second. See the attached picture.
How to proceed? This secondary switch was already replaced last june!
had you told me it was leaking i would have sent a replacement secondary pressure switch instead
ill get it on DHL for you later today (friday)
you will find a thread covering the fitment of the Mater secondary pressure switch here; https://londiniumespresso.com/forum?catid=5&id=1091&view=topic
kind regards
reiss.
but there was no moisture to be found then.
At least it is much easier to replace. Is there some way of measuring (I have a simple multimeter) wether this
really is the cause of the RCD problem?
How can this part fail twice a year?
I disconnected the ceme and switched on the LR. It heated up ok and the boiler came to operating pressure and stayed there. No electrical problem occured for more than 10 minutes. Steam and hot water worked fine, so the big Sirai pressure switch works as it should. I then unplugged the machine, reconnected the ceme and turned it back on. Nothing happened until I pulled the lever. This triggers the ceme and after a few seconds the RCD tripped and it started leaking soon after.
Still a bit puzzled why no water was leaking the first few times that it shorted, but maybe the plastic cover of the Ceme was enough to contain
the first drops when the leak started.
Thanks for sending the replacements so quickly. When all is fixed, should I return the new Sirai or just pay it and keeping it in storage when I or another Londinium owner over here needs it?
it isnt worth the trouble of returning it, hang onto to it
kind regards
reiss.
After removing the Ceme, I notice that the connectors of the new switch are on the side of the
switch body.
It is not possible to screw it in because one of the pipes to the group blocks the
turn. I attached a picture
How to proceed?
where the secondary pressure switch is mounted on:
It was a bit difficult to unscrew the nuts without putting force on the copper tubes or the boiler itself.
But I managed to put it back together again with the new Mater switch! :P
I connected the COM and NC (normally closed) connections just like the Ceme, and
switched on the LR again. It is warming up now, checking for leaks. None so far, looking good!
Pulling the lever triggers the new switch, so it seems to function properly.
Is the preset pressure setting the same as that of the ceme? Any change to the adjustment and usage compared to the old
model?
You can feel / observe at what point the lever 'grabs' now, compared to the previous setting/p-stat. In my experience that tells you more than attaching a pressure gauge which could also be possible.
Only when beans and grind have been kept the same. I've been using a Bialetti for a week now, and adjusted my grinder accordingly.
I've kept the setting of the new pressure switch as I received it for now.
On the positive side: aside from tuning my dose and grind, the LR does work again and I am enjoying my espresso!
yes, the Mater pressure switches are delivered to us pre-set by the manufacturer at 3.5 bar to give 3.0 bar at the puck
for medium and lighter roasts this perfect
for medium and darker roasts that are increasingly more soluble pull the cup from the stream when the lever rises to about 45 degrees above horizontal
also reduce the pre-infusion time from about 7 seconds to 2-3 seconds, timed from when the pump turns off after you pull the lever down
kind regards
reiss.