LR-Brew water temperature confidence

Dave Crabbe

I’ve started on the espresso journey with a Profitec Pro 500 PID, an HX design over a year ago. I am a bit disappointed in all these E61 machines, as they lack any type of temp sensing of water near the screen water exit and so one is really just guessing at what the brew water temp is. Even with a group thermometer, which I have installed, there is still some drop from it to the screen exit due to the large mass of the E61. It seems that manufacturers of these machines provide no means for a user to actually know if a problem is with brew water temp and Profitec does not seem to offer any help in this area. It is as though the user is expected to own a SCACE. In rural NS, Canada, I do not own nor have access to a SCACE.

So.... having dipped my toe in the big metal non-lever machines, I am unimpressed at the actual usability of these machines and the lack of test data that manufacturers, like Profitec offer for their machines; although they look great. My next foray into this hobby may be a lever as I read great things about the Londinium line.

My question is how can I have some confidence that my brew water is, say 200F within a few degree and what mechanism would allow me to raise that about 3 degrees for lighter roasts. Again with confidence I am actually getting an increased temperature. (Without me having to purchase a SCACE to confirm).

Perhaps with these higher performing machines, a user is expected to have such test tools, but it places quite a cost burden on the purchaser. Just the temp SCACE in canada is about 20% the cost of a Londinium. R

This likely is answered in the forums, so perhaps one can direct me to the appropriate threads.

Frans Goddijn

I have a SCACE and an array of other temperature probes, and I have used a triple Amprobe TMD56 setup to measure the temps on 6 different spots of the machine at the same time, logging on Artisan and producing impressive graphs, adding a VST refractometer with the additional app, and even a big lab centrifuge to have alternative samples to measure TDS and conclude extraction percentage, seeing if these are within the range that is mostly agreed to be ideal.

You seem to be on a similar path and it's a great and fun ride but indeed as you say very expensive in time and money.

My conclusion has been, that of the machines that I have used, the Londinium makes it most easy for me to produce consistently delicious shots of espresso, if I start off with excellent beans and a fairly decent grinder.

One does not need a barrage of lab equipment for that. If you set out to measure the 'brew temp' the SCACE is useless, a fancy bit of pretentious "look what I got" thing.

If you have someone manufacture a little probe in the coffee basket for you, and you connect it to an Amprobe, and that to Artisan software for graphical display, you will see that it makes a big difference where / how deep exactly the tip is placed in / on / under the puck, and how long and at what pressure you set the pre-infusion. Anyway, the measured temp, if you want to call it 'brew temp', will show a profile, not a flat line.

And the result in the cup will be outstanding to taste if you've not messed it up.

I practically never use all the lab stuff anymore, although I am fond of the things and will not part with them.

Getting a machine that makes it easy to make delightful espresso's time and time again without any hocus pocus, being able to teach your guests to do the same in only a few minutes, that's it.

Dave Crabbe

Hi Frans.. thanks for your reply.. I’ve done more searching and see that Reiss has answered this type of question more times than he cares to remember. The hesitation from users like me comes from the fact that I’ve purchased non-lever designs that haven’t lived up to the manufacturer’s claims of ‘thermal stability’ and so want my next purchase to be ‘wiser’. It’s not a cheap game ..

The LR sounds like an amazing machine. I’ll need to start salting away some money ...