Water level alarm and boiler overfilling

Jens Mertes

Hi community,

unfortunately my lady is showing some symptoms again. I noticed the water alarm occasionally kicking in during the last couple of days. In most cases the alarm went off as suddenly as it appeared. Lately when the hot water spout was used and the boiler refilling was started, the boiler was overfilled (pressure gauge was showing 1.3 - 1.4 bar) and water was released via the pressure relief valve on the manifold.

It seems like the water level probe of the boiler has some issues...

Maybe someone experienced this failure expression as well and know more detail and how to fix it.

Many thanks in advance!


Cheers,

Jens

Reiss Gunson

hi jens

assuming that you have not had this issue previously and assuming you are using the same water and given the age of your machine i suspect it is time for you to clean the level probe

somewhere on here is a post about it, i think in the permanent file

let me take a look for it and report back

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

here; https://londiniumespresso.com/permanent-file/983-removing-the-water-level-probe

you will need to be logged in to access as it lies within the permanent file.

Jens Mertes

Hi Reiss,

that might be the case, that some maintenance is needed. Would be great if you post the how-to.


Cheers,

Jens

Frans Goddijn

Jens Mertes post=15902 wrote: Would be great if you post the how-to.

Did you read the how-to in the link provided above?

Jens Mertes

Hi Frans, Hi Reiss,

Thanks, I was able to read the thread, its about how to remove the probe. What I am also curious of, is if there is anything to take care of in regards of cleaning the probe?

Just water, or is descaler, or any sort of alcohol needed/recommended?

Kind Regards,

Jens

Reiss Gunson

hi jens

dont use anything abrasive on the probe or you will etch the surface, which will make it easier for scale to reform on the probe in the future

a descaling solution could be a good choice

if it were me i would start by scraping at it with my finger nail and see if that is enough to remove it - if the surface of the probe is nice and smooth it should be enough

let me know how you get on

kind regards

reiss.

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

Hi
I started having a similar issue and tried to take off the level probe and it didn't come off all at once and now it's stuck. The tefelon didn't come off at all. I didn't want to use more force because I am afraid it will get broken. Help is appreciated!

Reiss Gunson

hello abdul!

when that occurs it is easiest to undo the larger fitting immediately below

be sure to use a set wrench and a hammer to strike the end of the wrench to create percussion shock to free the fitting from the boiler

take a look at Frans installation video for the digital pre-insuion kit if you need to see this approach in action

just pulling on the end of the wrench with your hand runs the risk of twisting the boiler, the remedy for which is a new boiler - no one has achieved this yet as far as i know, but you dont want to be the first either

kind regards

reiss.

Jens Mertes

Hi Abdul,

unfortunately I can not help out with personal experience. Since I have to admit the problem was a one-time-show for my machine so far and due to limited time, I left it the way it is for now. Of course with the appropriate surveillance. :-) Instead the last time I spent on maintenance I was investing in swapping the brew-group and piston seals.

But gladly Reiss already stepped in with advice. I think I will get it on during the next weeks as well.


Cheers,

Jens

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

Hi Reiss,
Thanks for your reply. I tried to use a set wrench and a hammer but no luck yet. It's so stiff. Any suggestions?
I am thinking of using WD-40 and see how it goes.

Thanks

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

Thanks, Jens!

Reiss Gunson

Please do not use WD40, or anything

Hit the wrench harder and more frequently with the hammer

It is the percussion shock that will free it

Just keep going: it is a method that works

Kind regards

Reiss

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

For the 2nd time, I tried to use a set wrench and a hammer but it didn't work. It seems like the lower nut is soldered to the boiler!

I am thinking of heating the nut and see if it will become loose. However, I'll risk damaging the probe and melting the tefelon.

I am open for suggestions! Any ideas?

Reiss Gunson

hi abdul

hit it harder: if anything breaks ill send you new parts at my cost.

watch frans' video @5'50" on how to fit the digital pre-infusion pressure kit if you need to see the technique in action

in the video they are working in an area of the machine where the parts are only delicately held in place, so their hammer strikes are gentle, but in the location you are working you can hit it with much more effort

just keep hitting away and the percussion shock will make it give, i promise you

[video width=425 height=344 type=vimeo]307018435

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

That's so nice of you!

Finally, I managed to take the probe out. Yay!
However, the tefelon is still stuck in the large nut as shown in the attached picture. It seems like it melted due to heat. I will clean the probe and try to place everything together in place tomorrow. Hopefully, everything will get back to normal!


[attachment=3308]IMG_20191120_222424.jpg[/attachmen
[map type=HYBRID zoom=2][/map]t]

Attached files

Reiss Gunson

hi abdul

good stuff

when you clean the probe dont use anything that is mechanically abrasive (eg fine sand paper) as it will scratch the surface of the probe, creating a better surface for mineral deposits to key onto in the future

kind regards


reiss.

Reiss Gunson

whilst i think of it, consider also the possibility that your water is too soft

pure reverse osmosis and distilled waters will result in the level probe system becoming unreliable as the electrical conductivity of these waters is so low

kind regards

reiss.

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

Thanks, Reiss!
I cleaned the probe by soaking it in citric acid and it cleaned it very well. I installed it back in place but the Teflon is stuck in the larger fitting. It seems like the tefelon melted into the larger fitting. Maybe I need a new water level probe?

I installed it anyway and checked for leaks after operating the machine and it seems to be working fine.

However, I run into another problem the machine started beeping, so I pinched the tiny tube inside the tank to see if there is any bubble causing the problem. It did not fix the problem. Next, I took the water tank off and cleaned it as well as the electrodes. Yet, I still have the same issue.

Could it be the solenoid valve?

Thank you

Frans Goddijn

Abdulrahman Alzhrani post=16298 wrote: THowever, I run into another problem the machine started beeping

A few weeks ago Reiss posted this which might help you, specifically point 3:

reasons the water alarm triggers;

1. water box not fully seated into the water box carrier: push down on both ends of the water box with both hands and see if that turns the alarm off
2. the two brass electrodes beneath the water box are corroded: pull water box out and give the tops of the brass electrodes a polish so they shine again
3. the stainless steel pins in the bottom of the water box have been pushed into the water box too far and as a result they no longer touch the brass electrodes below: remedy; remove water box, empty, push stainless pins back out so they protrude out of the bottom of the water box by about 2mm. the bottom of the water box also tends to concave as it ages and you may need to push the stainless pins out slightly to compensate for this movement
4. the pump is unable to refill the boiler within i think 30 seconds: cause is partially blocked/obstructed inlet solenoid. go to the permanent file and on about page 8 you will find a video detailing how to take the inlet solenoid valve apart and clean it

there are probably some others but one of the three above is probably the most likely

Abdulrahman Alzhrani

Thanks, Frans!

I went through 1,2,3 and the issue is still not solved yet!

It's probably 4.
It takes more than 30 seconds ( probably 50 seconds) to refill the boiler then the machine starts beeping.

I turned the machine off then the same happened again!

I saw the video explaining how to take off the inlet solenoid valve and probably will work on it tomorrow.

Frans Goddijn

The "takes a long time" issue does seem to suggest a somewhat clogged solenoid. When I had that I simply replaced mine, not bothering to take it apart and then re-assemble and that made it a very easy fix. The pump, having an easier time, also made less noise while being faster.

Reiss Gunson

hi abdul

yes, it will be the solenoid valve based on the symptoms you describe

note that you aren't going to find a small boulder inside - a tiny speck of grit, easily less than 1mm across, will very happily cause flow issues through the solenoid

if you are intent on seeing the piece of grit you will probably need to work on a dark (black) work surface and in very strong light and have a surgically clean work area before you begin

a can of compressed air like photographers use to clean their gear is also useful

kind regards

reiss.