Basket headspace ?

Anthony Materazzi

I have a latest model R and would appreciate some input on basket headspace. I understand the machine prefers more headspace, but I’ve read in multiple places that if the ridge in the OEM basket is partially visible that is good. On mine at that level, with a level temp, the coffee is touching the screen enough that it will leave a fine layer of grounds covering the screen. That’s with a wiped dry screen. At 1mm below the bottom lip portion of the ridge it doesn’t dust the screen, but if I place a US dime (1.35mm thick) on top of the puck the dime will kiss the screen and leave the slightest bit of indentation in the grounds. I’d estimate .25 mm indentation.

Am I being too literal when I read “ if the line is partially visible” that’s good and I’m just expierencing normal slight variations in machines?

Reason I’m asking is that at 15grams of coffee if I grind any finer to have it sit lower I’ll get up to 55 sec extractions before blonding from 1st drip with 5 second pi. for 27 gram in the cup. The taste is good, which is all that matters, but the difference from what I read sort of has me baffled. The portafilter handle when locked is sitting in normal position of handle pointing straight at me.

I’m new to levers, and still have a pump mind, and I’m sure that is not helping.

Machine :Londinium R
Grinder: Pharos - Voodoo mod’s
Coffee - Redbird Espresso - 10 days post roast.

Thanks!
TonyM

Reiss Gunson

hi tony

i think you should be pretty good if the tamped height of the puck is in the centre of the press line that runs around the circumference of the basket

id be inclined to take the basket out of the portafilter and then put the portafilter back on the group and drive the portafilter handle hard to the right several times in ensure that the shower screen is hard against the bottom of the group sleeve

if you need to watch a video of the shower screen being driven onto the group you can go to the permanent file and then i think on page 3 is a post entitled 'changing the portafilter seals' and it should be shown in the last of the three clips

kind regards

reiss.

Anthony Materazzi

Hi Reiss,

While I tried that before watching the vid gave me a reference point on how far the portafilter handle should travel with basket removed. I was pushing hard previously, but the handle didn’t reach the 4 o’clock position like in your vid. This go around I got slightly passed 4 o’clock. Closer to 3:30.

Visually I don’t see a difference, but when placing the portafilter with basket in the group previously I would start to feel the resistance of the basket against the seal within the first 2-3 degrees of turn. Currently I start to feel the resistance at around 10 degrees. While the seal obviously moved I get the same result

Tamped clearly below the bottom of the ridge line with 1.35mm thick washer on top still creates the slight indentation. Not sure if it shows in the pic. If tamped was in the middle of the ridge line it would definitely hit the screen and leave it with a covering of grounds. I’m using your flat button tamper.

Thanks,
TonyM

Attached files

Reiss Gunson

hi tony

please send me an image looking down on the group from above that allows me to see the angle that the portafiler handle is locked in to when you pull a shot

kind regards

reiss.

Anthony Materazzi

Hi Reiss,

Please see attached



Thanks,
Tony

Reiss Gunson

hi tony

what im about to write is always tricky, but how firm is the portafilter group attached at the 6 o'clock setting where you have it?

the point being that when the group is brand new like yours and all the chrome is on the lugs the 6 o'clock position may be taking the top of the puck too close to the shower screen

you only need to turn the portafilter handle onto the group until it feels 'snug' or 'secure'

obviously it is tricky for me to describe how far is enough in words, but it is not uncommon for the portafilter handle to only go on as far as the 6:30 position when the group is new

if experimenting please keep your hand on the handle throughout the shot so if you feel the handle starting to move to the left you can quickly arrest it to prevent the portafilter from flying off the group, probably denting the machine and spraying very hot coffee grounds and water all around the vicinity

kind regards

reiss,

Reiss Gunson

btw, unless you are removing the portafilter after the shot is pulled to reveal a shattered top on the puck (from it being compressed too hard against the shower screen) i wouldn't worry about it at all

the distribution tool and funnel and the critical items

kind regards

reiss.

Anthony Materazzi

Hi Reiss,

Yes, describing how tight without a actual torque value attached is always tricky, but I think you may be on to something. Getting to the 6 o’clock position with the porta filter handle takes more effort then I would normally do with any of my E61 groups. I’ve only been putting it into that position because of reading that’s the norm and the possiblity of losing the portafilter mid pull. The pluck is definitely not factured after a pull. Looks perfectly normal.

Going forward I’ll only tighten the the portafilter to what I feel it needs. That’s probably in the 6:30-7:00 o’clock position. I’ll make sure I keep my hand on it to prevent it working off under pressure. I am using the funnel and distribution tool every shot.

I’m onlyshort by about 2mm to reaching t he bottom of the ridge line and the ramps on the portafilter are fairly steep so that may just do it. I would have tried it before replying, but in the air at the moment.

Thanks for the help

TonyM

Michael Wolfson

The coffee matters quite a bit. I have some coffees where I can get in 15.8 gms in the standard basket and others where I can get in more. Having enough headspace is quite important on this machine.