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It is the Mater again...
Hi Londinium community,
since some weeks, maybe month the pump of my R is behaving quiet strange again. While the failure pattern is diverse. Sometimes when the pump kicks in, it sounds like being stuck. Meaning there is a engine whir but the pump is not conveying water. This can happen right, after the machine has been switched on. Once the pump ends up in such a state only a hard reset helps. Meaning after flicking the main power switch, the pump might get into a normal operation (normal sound and function).
The second thing is that when the lever is pulled down and at its lowest, locked position the pump does not kick in to fill up the group. This happens often but not always.
My machine had a problem with the Ceme Pressure Switch in it's early days: https://londiniumespresso.com/forum/londinium-i-owners-forum/1027-pump-is-behaving-weird?start=0
Maybe this might be helpful information regarding the present malfunction.
Another (very minor) incident is that the power LED was not working for a whole day (on yesterday). Today it is lit again. But that most likely not connected to the former explained problem.
Any advice is highly appreciated.
Kind Regards
Jens
since some weeks, maybe month the pump of my R is behaving quiet strange again. While the failure pattern is diverse. Sometimes when the pump kicks in, it sounds like being stuck. Meaning there is a engine whir but the pump is not conveying water. This can happen right, after the machine has been switched on. Once the pump ends up in such a state only a hard reset helps. Meaning after flicking the main power switch, the pump might get into a normal operation (normal sound and function).
The second thing is that when the lever is pulled down and at its lowest, locked position the pump does not kick in to fill up the group. This happens often but not always.
My machine had a problem with the Ceme Pressure Switch in it's early days: https://londiniumespresso.com/forum/londinium-i-owners-forum/1027-pump-is-behaving-weird?start=0
Maybe this might be helpful information regarding the present malfunction.
Another (very minor) incident is that the power LED was not working for a whole day (on yesterday). Today it is lit again. But that most likely not connected to the former explained problem.
Any advice is highly appreciated.
Kind Regards
Jens
Comments
thanks for posting
three issues there i think; the white LED, the secondary pressure switch that governs the pre-infusion, and perhaps the pump
drop me an email confirming the address/phone/email you want me to DHL the parts to and i will revert today
kind regards
reiss
If you hear it shut it down immediately. I make sure my tank has ample water in tank before I start making any drinks and I refill as I shut it down for the day.
Others in my family use the hot water wand on occasion. One overdid it and nearly ran external tank dry. I was next to the machine when I heard the cavitation sound as it running out of water.
I never let my external tank go below half. I keep a gallon of proper water just below my setup.
Bob
thanks for your quick response! I shot you an email to [email protected].
Cheers
Jens
thank you! Yes I do believe as well that this rotary pump is very sensitive to running dry. The exact same situation you just described is daily business here as well. My family is also making use of the water wand whenever hot water is needed and the machine is running. I am also keen on keeping an ample water level. I admit that I experienced the exact same alerting sound once, too.
The combination of a rotary pump and a water tank keeps you alerted somehow. :-) Although the rotary for sure adds up to the machine's quality.
Maybe some water level threshold probing would take the "stress" out of it.
Cheers
Jens
Hi Jens,
Reiss can correct me if I am wrong here , but I think a longer piece of plastic hose over the water probe that is inside the tank could give you an alert sooner. . .
Regards,
RB
Your description is great and I seem to be having the same problem. Mine also started this behavior perhaps a month ago although my frequency of malfunction seems to be less. A symptom I occassionally get that perhaps you saw as well is that when I pull the lever all the way down, I don't hear the normal pump sound, can feel a faint vibration if I grasp the handle and then, inexplicably, it will start working after about 30 seconds. Sometimes, if I'm running a long pre-infusion, I get the same sound as though the pump is kicking in again.
Today, the pump wouldn't even turn on when attempting my first espresso. I thought the machine was completely non-functional and then, a couple hours later, when I tried, it was back to behaving normally. Regardless of the sound/vibration, today is the only day that when pulling the lever all the way down with no puck (to rinse the group head), I didn't get much water at all, only a bit of water and steam. That is what I describe as the pump wasn't running at all.
I have not run the pump dry since fortunately, nobody in my family is using the hot water. I too fill it up when it gets perhaps half empty.
Reiss, please let me know the best way to debug this.
Thanks,
Mark
For Jens, and you, it is not the pump but the secondary pressure switch that detects the drop in pressure when the lever is pulled down and turns the pump on, and then off when the set pressure is reached
Do you have a Ceme or a Mater pressure switch?
kind regards
reiss,
Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm not sure which I have. May I know how to tell?
Kind regards,
Mark
Thanks. I just took the top off and looked to the left of the machine. It is Ma-ter.
Kind regards,
Mark
it will be an easy like-for-like fit then
i will email the factory now
kind regards
reiss
I apologize for any confusion the picture causes and have attached a picture rotated in the "correct" orientation looking from the front.
sorry for not responding earlier. But the last weeks have been much busier than anticipated. I got all the needed parts, to fix the described problems, a while ago and was also able to do the break-fix some weeks ago. Since then the lady is working like a charm again.
Thanks for the stress-free and blazing fast action!
Cheers
Jens
I seem to be having the same issue. Will pop off the top and check the pump type (it's a 2018 LR).
as i understand it when you pull the lever arm down the pump is not responding
can you please perform the following test:
with the machine on and up to temperature can you please open the hot water tap on your machine and run water out until the blue light illuminates, then shut the hot water tap
when the blue light illuminates the pump should turn on. does it?
kind regards
reiss.
Correct, but this is an intermittent issue (the machine is mostly working fine). The pump does work correctly and consistently when filling the boiler (blue light). I am only having occasional issues during pre-infusion.
A few weeks ago when pulling the lever down to the bottom pre-infusion position, the pump would run as expected initially, but then after the initial phase when the pump pulses a few times, instead of the normal pump sound, there was a low vibration sound instead. This has happened to me a few times - maybe 1 in 6 shots has this issue.
Then, yesterday, the pump did not run during the initial pre-infusion at all. I just heard the low vibration noise, and no water entered the group. This is the first and only time I got no water at all.
The low vibration noise is sort of like an electrical buzzing - the sound an electric motor might make when stuck.
Thanks!
This is just what was happening to me. Reiss kindly sent a replacement pressure switch that I installed and while the issue has mostly gone away, it does occassionally still occur. I tried one thing that seemed to cause the issue to go away for the time that it happens that perhaps you can try also and report back to Reiss: when the pre-infusion fails, release the lever and cycle the switch on the front of the machine. Then drop the lever (it won't have gone up much anyway). When I've done this, it suddenly started to work again. This makes me wonder if the problem is with the pressure switch or something the pressure switch feeds, such as the relay.
Reiss did ask me and I confirmed that the relay block is properly seated.
Mark
do check that the orange plastic relay is fully seated in the relay holder or else the signal from the Mater pressure switch is lost - for example if you have dragged the machine along the bench rather than lifting the machine. otherwise there is no reason for it to work loose once the machine is in your kitchen (it sometimes comes loose in transit)
reiss.
in that case it is the Mater (or Ceme if is is older)
i will send you a replacement under warranty
if you wish to upgrade to the digital pre-infusion kit i am happy to deduct the cost of the Mater
one of the reasons for the digital pre-infusion kit is the static pressure (12 bar) slowly kills the pressure switches
that said a mechanical pressure switch is the only off the shelf solution
please email me with instructions and confirm that the contact details that we used to send your machine to are still valid for this consignment
kind regards
reiss.
Thanks for the suggestion. I just reseated the orange plastic relay and will let you know if that fixes any intermittent problems. Maybe it wasn't properly seated.
Kind regards,
Mark