This forum is now read-only
To login to the new support channel and community forums, go to the Support Portal
Leak and fill issue
This morning I flipped on my L1 (original late 2012 model) and then left it unattended to warm up.
About 20 mins later I heard that the pump was running and noticed that the kitchen counter and floor was covered in water. I turned the machine off, mopped up all the water and after leaving it for a bit turned it on at which point the boiler kicked in and it pressurised but going to 1.5 bar instead of 1.4 bar which it has been set to since leaving the factory.
Now when the pump kicks in it makes a higher pitched sound than normal and it isn't pumping any water from the reservoir into the boiler. I turned it off and let it cool down then took the lid off and cant see anything out of the ordinary, but turning it on has the same affect as described earlier.
I'm guessing something has failed, but what?
About 20 mins later I heard that the pump was running and noticed that the kitchen counter and floor was covered in water. I turned the machine off, mopped up all the water and after leaving it for a bit turned it on at which point the boiler kicked in and it pressurised but going to 1.5 bar instead of 1.4 bar which it has been set to since leaving the factory.
Now when the pump kicks in it makes a higher pitched sound than normal and it isn't pumping any water from the reservoir into the boiler. I turned it off and let it cool down then took the lid off and cant see anything out of the ordinary, but turning it on has the same affect as described earlier.
I'm guessing something has failed, but what?
Comments
the boiler has overfilled; i.e. the fill probe has not detected when the water has reached the upper limit and as a result the pump has kept running and flooded the boiler. it can happen occasionally - water with a low TDS value would cause it as the electrical conductivity of the water becomes too low for the fill probe to function reliably, but I'm not sure if this applies to you
this over-full state is why you are seeing an over pressure reading on the gauge too
step one is to flick the hot water toggle into the locked open position. then turn the machine on. as it heats water will be pushed out the hot water tap as it expands - a little will also be pushed out of the anti vac valve, assuming it is in the down (open) position. have a bowl under the hot water tap and let the water continue to flow out until the blue fill light comes on. then close the hot water tap.
now monitor the machine to see if all is well and report back here if it is not
the pump may need to be replaced if it had pumped the water box dry, which i presume it had after that time. the pump should also have timed out, but again i have seen instances where it has not.
kind regards
reiss.
Thanks for the quick response.
If I turn the machine on now the green light comes on straight away and the pump makes a higher pitched than normal sound, but does not fill the boiler at all. I had to turn it off again as it was just running like this. With the green light on the machine didn't try and heat up at all.
Is the latest pump compatible with these very early models? And what about the fill sensor, does it need replacing too or is there any way I can check it is OK and why it didnt cut it off as normal?
is the boiler overfill and leaking from the top as i initially assumed?
or is the source of the leak from the pump, being the result of a split diaphragm?
if the boiler is not full to over flowing and the leak is from the pump then you can disregard my comments about overly soft water and the level sensor not functioning correctly - simply replace the pump (a very quick & easy job) and you are back in business
best
reiss.
I did drain some water out earlier when it was at high pressure so maybe that set it back to the correct level?
Edit: Running off Volvic, that's all it has ever had. Is there any way to see if the leak was caused by the pump or the boiler sensor?
What's the procedure to get the the side panels off on these older models? It feels like there may be screws in the bottom similar to the top?
(appreciate you are probably in bed now with the NZ time difference!)
Thanks!
this is the item you require: https://londiniumespresso.com/store/product/161-230v-50hz-piston-pump-for-londinium-i
dont just turn the machine off, but rather unplug it from the wall to ensure no surprises (the pump is being fed with 240V, even though it is very small)
yes, undo the two small screws in the left and right sides of the top panel
at this point i recommend you take a good image of how the side panels fit/lie into the front panel from plan view (i.e. looking down from above) as it may be very helpful to refer to when you come to reassemble
to access the two screws on the underside of the left and right side of the chassis (two under the bottom of each side panel) place the long side of the machine, by lifting the machine not dragging it or you will tear the o-rings out of the bottom of the feet underneath the machine, with the front left and rear left legs hard against the edge of your kitchen bench
note: in giving this advice i am assuming that your kitchen bench is dry so the machine can not slip or slide around and also that the edge of your kitchen bench has a square (right angle) edge to it rather than a bullnose edge
if your kitchen bench has a bull nose edge then hopefully it goes without saying to keep the feet slightly in from the edge of the bench so they remain on the flat top of the bench and not on the curved bullnose surface at the edge as this could result in the machine toppling over the edge of the bench onto the floor with sub optimal futures for your machine, your legs, your feet, and your kitchen floor
with the machine lying along the edge of the bench this will allow you access to place a screwdriver on the two screws each side of the chassis that are fastening the side panels in place
if you are careful you will be able to take the two side panels and the back panel off as one assembly, which saves a bit of time when you come to put it back on, but this is a slightly advanced manoeuvre and will require a little more care. if that approach isn't working then unscrew the 4 screws in the back panel too to free the side panels and remove the two side panels and the back panel singularly
now you will have everything off
pete redrup posted a very good step by step photo journal of him replacing the pump on his L1 which resides in the permanent file and you should be able to find fairly easily - let me know is you are unable to find it
armed with pete's guide i very much doubt you will get into trouble as it is comprehensive
take your time refitting the panels, dont force anything if it doesnt want to go, take care not to mix up the left and right panels as this will cause much frustration
if you are not confident performing on your own you are most welcome to FaceTime me (best video quality) or grainy old Skype if you prefer
best
reiss.
Many thanks for the detailed post.
I'll order the pump straight away, but before I do should I be worried about the fill sensor in the boiler? It must have overfilled if the pressure increased as described earlier? I'd hate to replace the pump and then the same thing happens again (although I wont be leaving it unattended after turning it on anymore until the pump has stopped!)
Also is there any chance it is just air trapped in the pump? I've tried starting it with the tap open a few times as you suggested, and with the lever down and that doesn't seem to prime it but it is doing something (whirring at the higher than normal sound).
Thanks,
Aaron
if the boiler is overfull i dont think I've ever seen/heard of a machine where it has permanently lost its marbles as far as the fill level probe goes; i.e. the process of turning the machine off, waiting 5 seconds, and turning it back on again has always reset matters
as you describe it when you have tried to turn the machine back on the heating element is not coming on (as it would if the boiler was up to the max fill level or above), but instead the inlet solenoid is being opened and the pump turned on - this suggests to me that the boiler is not overfull, but rather the pump is not shifting water
rather than trying to roll it up into a big complex problem with seven heads lets address the most likely cause first and then see what remains after you have changed the pump - there is a good chance that nothing else requires attention i feel
have you found the how to replace the pump post in the permanent file?
what water are you feeding it?
best
reiss.
OK I ordered the pump this morning, I've just looked at the guide and along with your earlier detailed post about how to get the side panels off it all seems very straightforward.
The machine has only ever been run off Volvic.
I'll update when the pump has arrived and I have installed it.
Thanks,
Aaron
First many thanks to you for your earlier post and to Pete Redrup for his, following the instructions made everything easy. I didn't bother removing the far side panel but followed everything else as stated. After swapping the pump I turned it on and it sucked a bit of air from the rubber pipe in, then started filling with water again and then cut off and started heating up as it should.
One thing I have noticed whilst it has been sat there unplugged was the pressure stat was showing 0.1 bar instead of 0.0, and the element just turned off at 1.5 leading me to think it's now out by 0.1 bar? It's not really a major problem, and maybe it will sort itself out after a few cycles?
Thanks again for the help, I know I'm not the first to say this but maintenance can seem daunting but with the guides it's made really straight forward.
thanks for reporting back - its always good to hear how the story ended
the most likely cause of what you describe is the anti-vac valve sticking in the up (closed) position at some point in the past when the machine has been turned off
as a result a vacuum has been able to form in the boiler and the needle on the pressure gauge has been sucked back hard against the stop pin on the gauge to the extent that it has caused the needle to be rotated on the shaft that it is mounted on
as a result the gauge now shows a reading of greater than zero when the system is cold, and yes, it is over-reading by that amount at all positions on the gauge. the solution is to replace the gauge (but obviously check that your anti-vac valve is reliably opened each time the machine is turned off before you go to the trouble of changing the gauge or the same thing will happen to the new gauge too
the alternative is to live with it and remember to add the differential to the displayed reading
kind regards
reiss.