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L1S2 shot PI
After ten years with an E61, I have had my L1S2 for about four months, now, and am feeling fairly confident with it (although my latte art is still quite poor), but want to compare my experiences with others. I make an average of two cappuccinos and one espresso every morning, using home roasted beans (Bullet R1, roasted just to SC). I am averaging 17.6g, ground in my E8. If I pull the lever and leave to preinfuse, when I let the lever go, it will catch around 11 o'clock, but if I do a mini-Fellini to insure better preinfusion, the lever will catch considerably earlier, at around 10 o'clock. Is this standard? I feel that the lever should not catch so late without the Fellini.
Also, I have tried what I can to prevent the "groaning" of the piston as it moves, but it seems no amount of adjusting the position of the spring or amount of lubricant on the seals helps. Has anyone else with this phenomenon found a solution?
Also, I have tried what I can to prevent the "groaning" of the piston as it moves, but it seems no amount of adjusting the position of the spring or amount of lubricant on the seals helps. Has anyone else with this phenomenon found a solution?
Comments
Is it different with beans from other roaster sources?
It will also make a difference how the beans were roasted, besides "just to SC" -- the time it took to get there, the time allowed after FC set in, the Rate of Rise in that final stage etc. -- this goes way beyond topic but I bring it up to indicate there are many variables outside the scope of your message.
You don't specify exactly what basket this goes into and this choice of basket can also make a big difference.
Tamping does as well.
Some audible indication of the powerful system being activated can occur. I was amused to finally hear it in my L-R but after I lubed all moving parts it had practically disappeared the next day. Then when I was alerted to the sound, on the L1-P I noticed it too but it's now barely audible. I think it depends on your approach and also on how silent your room is and how much you focus on listening for it.
thanks for posting. original piston seals or the new high performance seals?
what basket are you using? (the stock basket is intended for a dose of circa 15.8g)
how long are you pre-infusing for?
are you getting a drip in the cup before you release the lever?
are you stabbing the steam wand toggle to force the heating element on before you pull the lever down so you pre-infuse at maximum pressure?
you should not need to torture yourself with the fellini move or any other antics with any of our machines - i have tried wherever possible to make it the most simple espresso machine on the market to get great results from
spring noise means different things to different people - i have seen people complain about the terrible noise that the pressure switch makes and even the terrific noise of the element boiler the water
eliminating the spring noise is one of those things that is extremely difficult to shoot a video for; its one of those non academic tasks where you just quietly work away on it one evening with several iterations and eventually you will get it to what i would call a perfectly acceptable level
this is not to be confused with silent, which personally i think is a bit of a daft requirement on a spring lever group which is a mechanical device
the slower you move the lever the more you will be able to accentuate the noise it makes. watch a clip of the italians using a spring lever machine in an espresso bar and try pulling it like they do - that will greatly reduce the noise
you could also try some Rocol white chain & drive spray on the head of the group, which is a lubricant for use in food production machinery:
if you can provide answers to the above questions we should be able to get the lever grabbing at 45 degrees
but if you pack in enough coffee and grind fine enough and dont pre-infuse long enough, even the new piston seals will not save you from a high lever grab, but in this situation it is not the seals that are at fault - the water is merely disappearing into the dry coffee puck when the spring pressure comes down on the water above the puck
kind regards
reiss.
I was originally hoping the noise would go away, but it has not. I tried lining all moving parts. Perhaps I need to turn up the radio.
This is the piston you sent, so I assume it is the new seals.
If I do not Fellini, I may wait past 10 seconds, but with it, I get drips immediately.
I always release a touch of steam and begin at full pressure: 1.3 bar.
As for noise, we worked on it on Skype, and so perhaps I really do need to turn up the radio and chill. Yes, it is all part of the experience of mechanical machinery, which is also the charm of the L1. It is much quieter than the VBM levers that Dritan Alsela is using (YouTube).
Perhaps I should wait longer for PI, but I fear soaking the puck too long no will result in too low temperatures and stale taste. I started the Fellini after 8 seconds with no drips in the cup. The past few days, I just go ahead and do it right away, and get drips I. The cup after 2 secs. But, yes, I have read that one should not need such maneuvers, and so brought it up.
It could be helpful to know how beans from different roasters work in the same situation.
Details of roast can make a huge difference. For example: if the roast development has been shallow, the beans come out hard and in a normal grind setting the water would rush through, so one would compensate by grinding powder fine which would cause pre-infusion to take a long time and a high catch of the lever.
Or if the roast took long and beans took a beating, one could crunch the beans between fingers and even on a relatively coarse grind setting there are many fines in the basket, also preventing a good flow.
It could help to know what your flow is, how much weight is extracted in how much time, results that can be measured using the Acaia scale.
A complete video of your routine could also help.
I also have the E8 and am very happy with it. I do throw out 4 seconds of grinds every day before my very first espresso.
you could try turning the wick up to 1.4-1.45 bar, assuming your roasts are not too dark
kind regards
reiss.
Frans, I shoot for 30g in 30 secs, but I do get lazy and just eyeball it some mornings. The Luna is a great scale, but sometimes, I just want my coffee.
That's excellent! The in-laws of a good friend of mine are Italians and he learned from them to purposely enjoy the first cup including the 'old' grinds of the previous evening from the doser as this is perceived as a perfectly mild start-of-day espresso.
I myself prefer the freshest grinds, but I typically have 4-5kg of roasted beans in stock so the waste is relatively minimal.
I agree with you that minute logging of roast profile and reporting / filming of extraction and timing/weighing of flow is not essential, just when you want to discuss an issue online it helps to share as much detailed and exact information as possible.
I am curious to play with boiler pressure, so I decided to dive in. Before adjusting the boiler pressure, I went into the Permanent file and read the post on "How to adjust the p-stat." I assume that this thread is from before the p-stat was upgraded from the 20A to the 30A. As I have the newer Sirai 30A, the information has changed somewhat. For example, I did not remove the whole cap, but just lifted the yellow cap to reveal the adjustment screw. Above the yellow cap are indications that clock-wise is - and ccw is + (opposite of the permanent file description). Just to be cautious, I turned the screw three turns ccw, and not four as suggested, and when I turned the power on, the boiler went just above 1,5 bar, so it would seem that the adjustment on the new p-stats is much more sensitive. I ended up backing it off by one rotation, and will be trying 1,41 bar for the next few days. I mention this for reference.
Matt
1) What is the Fellini? I suppose I could look it up, but I'll just ask!
2) Which machine are you referring to...I presume its the previous L1 (the one I have with a tank), and not the new L1
3) With the new seals (I started with the old problematic ones when I bought the machine late last year) my lever catches pretty consistently at 45 degree. One thing I have noticed is that sometimes it engages very firmly, and other times it engages very soft. Not sure why, and this is with the same beans, grind, tamp etc. I do things very consistently. I left off some steam till the light goes on, load the portafilter, and pull down the lever about 6 sec after the light when on. Fortunately I have never had any of the noise from the spring!
4) If you don't want to waste beans, the Monolith is wonderful. Almost no retention. Can't imagine making espresso with my Monolith!
Rob
Rob
1) The Fellini move helps apply a little additional pressure to the PI (like a poor man's LR);
2) L1S2 means pre-2017 L1 Series 2;
3) The Fellini move assures that, when I finally let the lever go, it catches very firmly at ~45 degrees;
4) The E8 also has just about 0 retention, so I do not understand why Frans throws the first double shot's worth of the day.