Need Help Trouble Shooting Bad Fuse

Sean Kilgarriff

Hi everyone,

I emailed Reiss with this question about something interesting that was going on with my Londinium I, and he mentioned that I should post on the forum about it.

I have had my Londinium for roughly 1 year, and I just moved into a new apartment (brand new apartment I.E. built ~6 months ago). I had my machine plugged in and working for a month or two at this apartment, but recently the fuse has begun to act up. I can't plug my machine in without the fuse blowing instantly. The machine does not even have to be on, as soon as it is plugged in, the fuse blows. This goes for every outlet in my apartment - I've tried plugging it into every one and the respective fuse for that outlet blows immediately without even turning on my machine.

I've plugged in and used multiple other things in these very same outlets with no other problems including some high powered things such as a blender. The outlet that my machine is currently (attempted to be) plugged in at is a 20 (not entirely sure what this means - number listed on the fuse).

I would really appreciate some help solving this as going without great espresso is becoming harder by the day!

Reiss Gunson

Are you plugging the L1 directly into the socket, or have you a device like a kill-a-watt meter or timer between the wall socket and the plug on the L1?

Sean Kilgarriff

I am plugging it directly into the socket.

Frans Goddijn

Sean Kilgarriff post=12362 wrote: The machine does not even have to be on, as soon as it is plugged in, the fuse blows.

That's interesting. Can you check the plug that you put into the socket? If you plug that in without the cable that's currently into it, does the fuse blow? If you put the cable back in neatly, does it still happen? Has anything else happened that could explain this, for instance you filled up the tank and water splashed over the rim into the machine and now some part is connected through water to earth and the earth leakage circuit breaker is actually disconnecting instead of a fuse?

Reiss Gunson

For clarity, I presume you mean a residual
current device is tripping, as opposed to a fuse or circuit breaker?

I'm further assuming your previous dwelling just had circuit breakers, not RCDs?

When you say you plug it into different sockets and it always trips the RCD, is it the same RCD that is tripping?

Kind regards

Reiss

Sean Kilgarriff

Hi Frans,

I disconnected the two cables that come from the power cable and connect to the power switch. When I removed these two cords, and plugged the power cord back into the socket - the fuse did not blow. The second that the red cord touched the metal part that it is supposed to be connected to, the fuse blew.

I do not recall any water splashing out from the water container, and on inspection of the insides of the machine I see no residual water anywhere.

Here are pictures of the cords that I unattached

[img ]https://imgur.com/JTkTS3u[/img]

[img ]https://imgur.com/q279rfc[/img]

Sean Kilgarriff

Hi Reiss,

To be honest I am not 100% sure. I have included a picture of the box that contains the "fuses" that continually trip.

When I plug the machine into different sockets in my apartment, the respective fuse for that socket is blown - not always the same fuse.

[img ]http://imgur.com/a/FxRQz[/img]

Gary Dahl

In the US those are called circuit breakers. Each will open its corresponding circuit (click to the "off") when the current passing through it exceeds a specified level, which is the number of amperes shown on the switch. The breakers on the left side that have a "test" button appear to be what we call GFI ("ground fault interruptor") circuits. These will open the circuit if even a small current passes between ground and neutral, indicating the presence of voltage where there should be none.

If either of these are tripping immediately upon the unit being plugged in, it would typically indicate a short circuit in your machine, assuming that your electrical circuit is performing normally with other appliances. Since yours trips even with the power switched off, the short is sure to be early in the circuit, perhaps in the plug or power cord itself. Troubleshooting is done by isolating components, working your way from the power cord onward. I'm sure Reiss will help you sort this out efficiently.

Do you have a multimeter? A simple, inexpensive meter that measures ohms will be very useful.

Not intending to step on any toes here, just provide information. I have built many electrical devices over the years, and found it necessary to troubleshoot along the way.

Frans Goddijn

I will insert the pictures in the message so one does not need to get them from the links:

Reiss Gunson

1. has the power lead been 'yanked' at any time during the move?

2. does the power lead show any sign of impact, crushing, cutting, or other impairment?

3. does the power lead still have the factory moulded plug affixed to the end of it? (or has it been changed?)

it seems odd to me that the machine has functioned perfectly (as far as i know) since it was delivered in December 2015 (despatched 17DEC2015 on DHL Express), you move house 12 months later and the machine is suddenly faulty

kind regards

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

looking at the image your 'kitchen receptacle' circuit breakers are 20amp

is the wiring in your house a ring mains, i.e. is that 20amp circuit breaker is serving multiple sockets?

if it is you need to add up the total current draw of all the devices on the ring that the circuit breaker is servicing and check that their peak draw does not exceed 20A

you could test this idea by plugging in another device that has a power rating of at least 1400W/120V

another idea if you know that the circuit breaker labelled 'microwave' is only servicing the microwave (which may not be the case), unplug the microwave and plug in the L1 there; similarly for any other circuit breaker that you know is only serving a single socket

also, is that your entire distribution board for the whole of your house or do you have additional boards that are not shown in the image?

kind regards

reiss.

Frans Goddijn

Sean Kilgarriff post=12362 wrote: I have had my Londinium for roughly 1 year, and I just moved into a new apartment (brand new apartment I.E. built ~6 months ago). I had my machine plugged in and working for a month or two at this apartment, but recently the fuse has begun to act up

If you carry the machine to someone else's house and connect it, the same thing happens there?

Reiss Gunson

i have called the managing director of the manufacturing company just now to get his thoughts on this, and they are in line with mine

if the circuit breaker is popping with the machine switched off you have a dead short (the on/off switch on the machine provides twin pole isolation)

the only thing that can cause this is a damaged power lead

either the moulded plug has been cut off and replaced with some other plug, or the power lead has been stretched, crushed, or cut

kind regards

reiss.

Victor Sherman

Sean
From your troubleshooting steps (if I get them right) I would conclude that your machine has a faulty (from the GFI perspective) power switch. You can bypass it to see if the rest of machine is fine. Common electrical safety warnings apply!

Sean Kilgarriff

Hi Reiss,

As far as I know the power lead has not been yanked, or damaged, and it is the original. Although, there does seem to be some appearance of what I would call "chipping" on the actual metal pieces of the cord. I will edit this post with a picture.

The machine had been functioning quite well in the same spot for a few weeks before it stopped working, so as far as I know nothing would have happened in those few weeks that it was working to the time that it stopped that would have serious impacted the power lead - I do have a roommate though, so I will ask him if he recalls anything as well.

The 'kitchen receptacle' breaker does indeed serve multiple sockets, but nothing else is plugged into them. I have also tried plugging the machine into the washing machine breaker as well as the microwave already. The same result occurred with both of these - an instant pop of the breaker in that box. This is the entire box for the apartment that I am currently in. The management may have access to more, but this is all that I have access to.

Frans - I haven't yet tried moving it back to where I used to live. I may try that sometime in the next few days if I can't clear this up through other ways.

Viktor - How exactly would I go about doing that? I'm not sure power source I would connect to the plug.

Thanks again for all the help everyone! I really appreciate it.

Unknown

Sean Kilgarriff post=12371 wrote: Hi Frans,

I disconnected the two cables that come from the power cable and connect to the power switch. When I removed these two cords, and plugged the power cord back into the socket - the fuse did not blow. The second that the red cord touched the metal part that it is supposed to be connected to, the fuse blew.

Hi Sean,

So with this action you (almost for sure) excluded the power cable from causing the problem. (Almost, since by handling the cable you might by chance have lifted the short in the cable; you might plug in/unplug the cable a few times when it is disconnected to see if the fuse will trip again)

I agree with Victor that the power switch is most likely to be faulty. Maybe try this: disconnect all other wires from the switch; reconnect the power cord and plug it in. If the fuse blows, the power switch should be exchanged. If the fuse doesn't trip, reconnect one other wire at a time to the power switch (of course, unplug the machine every time you reconnect a wire!! Tell us when-what happens.

Mark

Edit: just thought of it: the power-on light! First reconnect the power cord, disconnect the power-on light. Plug in! If it trips (damn) disconnect the other wires and then reconnect one by one until the fuse trips.

Sean Kilgarriff

I finally found the issue! So I did what some of you suggested and removed wires one by one if they did not blow the fuse. This lead to me the black box that sits roughly in the middle of the espresso machine with the yellow cap (I believe manufatured by Sirai, although I do not entirely know what this is).

I opened this box to find that one of the copper brackets had been jarred from it's spot. (this may have just been due to me traveling with my espresso machine eventually this bracket popped out. This was creating a short when I connected the espresso machine into the outlet! When I removed this bracket, my machine now works perfectly again (only turned it on for a second, as I figured that I needed the bracket on there). I want to reattach this bracket to where it supposed to be, but the screw postition is rather impossible from the current position of the black box.

Are there any instructions for removing this black box?

Thanks everyone for your help! Glad to have finally found the problem, and hopefully be having some delicious espresso tomorrow morning!

Gary Dahl

Bingo! Should look like this:

Attached files

Unknown

This is the pressurestat. Just leave it. You only need two contacts. The middle one is not used. Only: check for the screw! Where is it? And isn't another copper part just loose somewhere?

Mark

Gary Dahl

Looks like the middle one might be providing your short. If it isn't needed (mine appears to be unconnected), take it out...and then, yes, find that loose screw. It can create a short circuit as well.

Reiss Gunson

i still can't quite reconcile what is going on here as no electricity should be flowing through the switch when it is in the off position - i appreciate that the loose screw and plate in the pressure switch may have created a short circuit, but this should be of no effect until the point at which the machine is turned on

i will post again as soon as i have an answer

i emailed you the PDF fitment instructions for the pressure switch yesterday Sean, if you need them

more soon

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

finally, i am very happy to post that the manufacturer has explained to me below what has happened. i couldn't understand it as we have never had an on/off switch fail in that way before.
_____________________________
Hi Reiss,
has shorted the pressure switch to earth which has damaged the on off switch on 1 pole so that’s why it kept blowing even when switched off.
needs a new toggle switch and he can use the spare contact on the pressure switch in the middle so he doesn’t need a new one.
_____________________________

the machine is under warranty sean & the contact screw in the pressure switch should not have rattled loose and caused the short in the first place, so if you can email me your new address & phone i will get a replacement on/off toggle switch onto DHL Express for you today

I'm sure you appreciate that the on/off switch needs to be replaced as both poles are no longer being switched; one pole is now permanently closed (on) regardless of the switch position, which is not good

merry xmas!

reiss.

Gary Dahl

I always love a happy ending!

Sean Kilgarriff

Hi everyone!

Apologies for the really delayed response, but I am happy to report that I have fixed the problem! Thank you all for your help!

Reiss Gunson

hi sean

thank you for taking the time to report back, it is always appreciated

kind regards

reiss.

Ron Sanders

Any burning/melting at any point in the wiring loom?