Need help troubleshooting L1: heating lamp on, boiler hot but no pressure

Tito M

Hi, first post here Would appreciate some guidance/advice--

I have a non plumb-in Londinium L1 used in our office. Bought it used last March and it's been working fine until recently. I wasn't in the office the past 2 days so don't know if the machine was left without water but it's been malfunctioning since yesterday.

Today, popped the panels and here's what we have:

1. The power (white) and heat (red) lamps are on
2. The pressure gauge stays at 0 bar and doesn't rise
3. After 5-10 minutes, touching the boiler shows it actually is hot
4. The pump doesn't kick in
5. Gicar looks like it has some heat marks (see pictures)

Not sure if my thinking is correct but if there is water in the boiler and the boiler gets hot, then shouldn't pressure be developing? Since pressure gauge shows 0 bar, then likely there's no water in the boiler and pump is broken. Please let me know if there's a way to confirm / test. I can bring a multimeter for example. Thank you in advance!

Tito

Reiss Gunson

hi tito

thanks for posting. just wondering if you can email me with a little more information as I'm struggling to find your machine in my records

how soft is the water you are using? have you recently changed the water you use in the machine? my first thought is that the auto fill sensor in the boiler is not detecting that the water level in the boiler has dropped to the point where it needs to be refilled

disconnecting the yellow wire on the end of the boiler fill probe from the junction box that it screws into and touching it on the boiler should result in the blue light turning on and the pump coming on. try it and let us know

the other thing i see is you have a 120V pump in that machine, so can you please confirm that it is connected to a 120V socket? (i currently have no idea where you are based)

kind regards

reiss

Tito M

Thanks for the quick reply, Reiss, I'm typing this on my phone on the train home. I bought this L1 used in NYC and it's currently in my office. I can try your suggestions on Monday when I get back too work. Otherwise, the water hasn't been changed, it's filled from our office water dispenser but I be no idea how soft it is.

I have a picture with what appears to be the product serial number (24922) tested by Mike W last 13/6/2015 I can upload later as well. Thanks!

Tito M

Hi Reiss,

I have this video:

Removed the yellow wire from boiler fill probe on the Gicar end. Turned on machine, power lamp on (white), boiler lamp off (red). Pump and pump lamp (blue) came on after a few seconds although I don't see any water being drawn from the reservoir (I could be mistaken here). Touching the yellow wire to the boiler doesn't have an effect, the pump is continuously working so I turned the machine off again.

Should I let the pump run much longer and observe the water level in the reservoir? Does this mean the boiler fill probe is defective? Thanks again!

Tito

Reiss Gunson

hi tito

i have added full owner privileges to your account and moved your post out of the pre-sales questions section

you should now be able to post anywhere on the forum

its well after 1am here, so if you dont mind i will try and make a meaningful post for you in the morning when i am thinking clearly. i apologise for this delay

ps - am i right in thinking you purchased your machine off Richard in New York, who infamously purchased a new L1, then got told by 'someone' what he really needed was an olympia cremina so he sold his near new L1 (to you it seems) and bought a new cremina. after 8 weeks the cremina was quietly sold and richard purchased a second new L1 off me.

kind regards

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

hi tito

apologies for taking so long to get back

ok, so good news, the pump is responding; reconnect the yellow wire to the boiler level probe

as a 'get going' measure i would pull the BWT filter-softening cartridge out of the water box - if you have not changed it since you purchased the machine i would throw it in the rubbish and either replace it with another, or take a solemn vow to only use water that is soft enough in the machine (total of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate not to exceed 70ppm - TDS can be as high as you like, as long as the total of the calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate does not exceed 70ppm). Equally you dont want TDS to fall much below 50ppm or the fill sensor is likely to become unreliable

you need to measure the total amount of calcium carbonate and magnesium carbonate in your water as a matter of urgency

potentially the filter cartridge is old and full of gunk, such that the pump is unable to pull water through it, so removing the filter may solve the issue. also, fill the water box up with water so you have the weight of the water pushing down on the outlet, in effect helping the pump to pull the water out of the box

judging from the noise your pump is making it doesnt sound as though it is sucking air, which is good - the pump sounds healthy too. to check that the pump is shifting water, carefully undo the braided stainless pressure hose on the outlet side of the pump and check that there is a good healthy flow of water out the free end of the hose (a short video clip of the water running out of the end of the hose would be helpful). it may be prudent to take a photo of the pressure hose before you disconnect it so you can see how to twist it when you come to re-connect the pressure hose

if you have a good healthy flow of water there, then the next possibility is that the inlet solenoid is obstructed by a small piece of grit/debris, although if this was the case i would expect to hear a different tone from the pump, a more strained sound. if you get to this point then log into this website and go to the permanent file of this support forum and in there you will find a post from me on how to disassemble the inlet solenoid

basically, we need to know how hard your water is; this will provide assurance that we are not scaling the machine with hard water, and equally not causing the fill probe to become unreliable by using water that is too soft. once you have established that then you are checking that you have water in the water box, that the pump is pumping (i.e. not air locked) and then that the path from the pump to the boiler is unimpeded. if you get to that point the boiler must be receiving water; its that simple

let us know how you get on

kind regards

reiss.

Tito M

Thank you, Reiss, I did buy this L1 from R but I don't know him personally (it was an ebay purchase). No need for apologies, actually am very impressed with your support considering I didn't buy from you directly. Since the machine is also in my office, I'm unable to work on it during regular office hours so no rush on the advise.

Indeed, I hadn't replaced the cartridge and shall discard the current one. Let me put together an order later though for replacement cartridges and seals. Thank you once again!
Tito

Reiss Gunson

i wasnt angling for a water cartridge sale - all i am saying is it is a small capacity filter and as a result they can not process swimming pool volumes of water, so if yours is the original it is most likely exhausted

i fully appreciate that they are an expensive solution to ensuring soft water and recommend that owners look for more economical means of ensuring the water in their machine is soft enough, but shipping them fitted in the machine ensures the machine is at least initially protected whilst owners become familiar

if your water is soft enough, as it is here in Auckland and almost all of New Zealand, then you can do away the the water filter cartridge completely as you run the risk of over-softening the water and then the boiler fill sensor becomes unreliable

until you establish how hard your water is you are not able to make a decision about what kind of water treatment you need, if any

if there is evidence of limescale deposits on hot water taps, shower roses, and electric jugs then you definitely need to soften your water in order to protect your machine from limescale deposits. if you dont have any of these tell tale signs then you most likely do not need to soften your water

kind regards

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

ps - every owner is entitled to support here on this forum, you dont have to have purchased the machine new from me (otherwise second hand buyers would be at a significant disadvantage) - my focus is to build a global network of owners so that over time you get other owners of LONDINIUM products close to your location

Reiss Gunson

pps - that discolouration on the sticker on the top of the Gicar is annoying, but they all do it; every single one

i have also been told that it occurs on other Gicar products where they use the same material for the label - i presume it is heat sensitive in some way

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

and get some butcher's block oil on those wooden handles whenever they start to feel dry

Tito M

Really awesome support from you Reiss, I got the machine to work today by removing the cartridge! Will check our office water hardness and buy a softener if needed but in the meantime, thank you for the help troubleshooting. As far as I can tell, I don't see limescale deposits and am not bothered by the discoloration of the Gicar.
Also, if you have interested parties check out the L1 in NYC, just send me a message. Regards and best wishes,
Tito

Reiss Gunson

Tito, its a pleasure working with people like you; i appreciate it when people make a closing post on an issue, rather than disappear off the radar until next time they need help

If there is no evidence of limescale deposits on your tap ware then you shouldnt need to soften

You might want to take your water from a basic water filter jug that uses a simple carbon filter as this will remove the chlorine, which adversely affects the taste of your coffee (if you run a tap first thing in the morning, or pour a glass half full of water and sniff it you will quite easily smell the chlorine if it is present - it is quite noticeable here in Auckland on certain days/times of the year

Kind regards


Reiss.

Tito M

Just wanted to report the result of our office's water hardness, Reiss.

Bought this kit and the result was 3 grains per gallon or 17.1 x 3 = 51.3 ppm.

So it looks like as long as we use the same water dispenser as a source that water hardness won't be an issue with this machine. Thank you once again, Reiss for the fantastic support! Best wishes and have a lovely holiday season.

Regards,
Tito

Reiss Gunson

Yes, that sounds fine

Merry Xmas

Reiss