L1 Spring Noise

Nathan Wager

Hello All,

Just finishing the first week with my new L1 and had a couple questions.
I have a couple noises coming from the group during the each cycle of the lever.

The first sound I would describe as a vibration of some metal components lightly rubbing. This occurs between 10:30 and top of the lever travel, in both directions of the pull. I can feel the vibration, like a light buzz or hum in the lever handle. I have not noticed any feeling of binding during the lever pull.
Should there be lube on the piston shaft connecting where it comes through the top of the group housing to connect to the handle? Wiping a finger over that shaft did not feel like much if any lube was present.

The second sound is your average spring compressing and decompressing noise, ping ping ping pong pong pong. This occurs between the 9:30 and 11:30 position of the lever in both directions of the pull. Is that normal? Are there any suggestions where to look for the source of these noises?

I did follow Reiss' video instructions when I assembled the group and applied a good coating of lube from the top of bottom of the sleeve.

And a final question, my lever appears to be catching quite high, like the 11:30 position. I have run between 15.4g and 16.0g by 0.1g in the stock basket / bottomless PF, same grind. While my distribution and grind may not be perfect, I think it should be fairly close. I'll start the pull down, about a three count top to bottom, then 6-8sec PI, no drops appear on the bottom of the basket. On the up stroke I begin to feel a slight resistance at around 9:30 but then that resistance fades out, by 10:00 like a squish. The lever catches solidly around 11:30, flow begins and I generally get 15-19g out in 45sec. The bottomless extraction looks ok, centered, tiger striping, but slow. The final bit of pressure in the PF takes a long time, several minutes, to bleed off and I get a soupy puck.
I am thinking of cleaning and rebuilding the group seals tomorrow, are there any things I should pay extra attention to?

Thanks for any comments / suggestions.

Nate

Frans Goddijn

The 'rubbing' sound can be more noticeable in some groups than others, but I have read from users who managed to shift the spring location just a tiny bit to silence the rubbing almost completely. There is considerable energy loaded and released mechanically and it can be audible, also depending on the ambient sound. In a bustling café no one will ever notice, in a very quiet home some can more easily notice it.

The new PTFE tape trick on the lower ridge before sliding on the rubber seal helps with the catch at release, before that a seal change or more thorough lubing helped me and others, and nowadays the new custom seal would solve it.

Reiss Gunson

hi nathan

thanks for posting. i dont want to contradict your account, but i would be surprised if you can not significantly reduce the spring noise by ensuring that you have grease covering the entire surface of the bore - what you describe sounds to me like the piston grabbing in the bore, causing the spring to resonate

feel free to wipe a little grease on the connecting rod, but please take extreme care as the lever is more than capable of inflicting a serious crush injury to your finger

your lever grab, like others, is way too high. an interim fix is to carefully remove the bottom piston seal and wrap about 7 turns of ptfe thread tape around the seal groove in the piston, then refit the seal. try not to get too many wrinkles in the ptfe tape when you wrap it on

a permanent fix is our high performance seals, the first 50 of which arrived on friday and will be despatched tomorrow, monday 10 october

probably address the seal and apply a little more grease to the bore, and a little grease between the coils of the spring right at the bottom where the coils are very close together doesnt hurt to dampen the resonance either

then report back an tell us what issues remain

kind regards

reiss.

Nathan Wager

hello Reiss,

Thanks for the reply and no worries about any contradiction, I am happy to hear any alternate ideas.

Today I did a little work with the L1 and I made some good progress.
- Replaced all three seals with 3 standard new ones that were included with the kit, minimal to no change with lever grab
- applied 5 wraps of PTFE tape on lower seal groove, re-installed seal, cleaned and lubed the bore. success! pulled 10 shots this evening and 100% lever catching around 45 degrees. worked my dosing down to 14.9g and hitting the baseline 27g out in 27-30sec. sweet espresso goodness. next to try moving the dose back up towards 15.8g with a coarser grind to maintain the weight/time output.
- wiped some lube on the upper connecting rod (one hand on the lever to ensure I maintained all ten fingers in the end) and that took care of much of the groan type noise/vibration.
- tried to work some lube into the bottom end of the spring where it meets the piston and the tight coil area. the spring compression/decompression noise has reduced. I think next time I'm in there I can get a little more into the lower coil area.
- when I re-assembled the group I snugged the four hex bolts finger tight and then gently turned the top group section back and forth feeling out the slight bit of play, attempted to center in that zone, and snugged the bolts down with the hex key. not sure if that idea did anything, as the play is minimal but figured what the heck worth a try.

We had some family over tonight and everyone was happily caffeinated courtesy of my new L1.

Thanks for all your help and looking forward to the new high performance seals.

cheers,

nate

Robert Hall

"I did follow Reiss' video instructions when I assembled the group and applied a good coating of lube from the top of bottom of the sleeve."

I was out of town when I read this and wanted to read the manual when I got home before I responded. The manual doesn't say anything about applying lube when installing. Says the lube is already in place, and to check that no debris got on the lube during transport.
Rob

Reiss Gunson

hi nate

thank you for taking the time to report back; it is appreciated

kind regards

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

hi rob

yes, i know, inconsistencies like this do exist. in due course i will revise the manuals, but the primary focus right now is to get these new seals out the door as i think you will find all these convoluted steps will simply become irrelevant with the new seals; it will become a very simple plug & play affair i think

kind regards

reiss.

Curtis Smith

Hi, Reiss!

I just installed my group top, having first applied a small amount of loxeal, then reinstalled after having applied a generous amount of lube, but there is still a vibration from 10-12 o'clock. I tried removing an spreading the lube around, but to no avail. Am I just not being aggressive enough with lube, or is there another trick?

Curtis

Reiss Gunson

have a look again at my video and see how much time and attention i give to ensuing the entire surface of the bore is lubricated - i expect you have dry areas on the bore that the seals are grabbing on

the other thing if the noise is coming when the handle is pulled down initially, at the top of the pull, if to pack quite a lot of grease into the last turn or so of the spring at the bottom where the coils are very close to each other - squeezing grease in between this tiny gap prevents the spring resonating if it is grabbing on a dry area of the bore

best

reiss.