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Channelling
Hi Team,
Thanks for your help in the forum. I’ve been struggling with getting a good extraction on the bottomless handle. I have tried many techniques to no avail (WDT, straight tamping, tapping with palm etc). I’ve tried multiple baskets too (IMS 2T, 18g VST, Double EP HQ). Freshly roasted beans.
My routine:
* Measure dose (usually going for 17g in the HQ EP Basket)
* grind (Compak K10, single dosing)
* tap handle with palm of hand to get grind in all sides
* tamp
* 8sec PI (just after element goes off)
Attached is almost always the same result…
Any ideas?
Tim
Thanks for your help in the forum. I’ve been struggling with getting a good extraction on the bottomless handle. I have tried many techniques to no avail (WDT, straight tamping, tapping with palm etc). I’ve tried multiple baskets too (IMS 2T, 18g VST, Double EP HQ). Freshly roasted beans.
My routine:
* Measure dose (usually going for 17g in the HQ EP Basket)
* grind (Compak K10, single dosing)
* tap handle with palm of hand to get grind in all sides
* tamp
* 8sec PI (just after element goes off)
Attached is almost always the same result…
Any ideas?
Tim
Attached files
Comments
Can you try NOT single dosing?
You say "freshly roasted beans" but how fresh? Have they rested for say 10 days?
Yes I will give that a try today.
Yes, 10 days rest for sure
Original post edited.
- Do you make sure that your coffee bed is perfectly flat and level before you tamp? (tamping an uneven bed will just compress the unevenness, not eliminate it)
- What tamper do you use? Is it a tight fit? Does it leave any grounds on the basket sides?
Yep I've tried mixing with a skewer. No avail.
I try my best! I normally use the horizontal and vertical tap method.
Pullman Tamp, I measured it and it's 58.4mm. So fits pretty well...!
try 12-14 seconds and let us know if that helps
you already know my views on single dosing
make sure the machine has been on for an hour too
Am now using a 180g weight onto the beans in the chute simulating a full hopper.
Also tried a 12-14s PI.
First shot was great!
Next two, back to normal
I'm suspicious that the first one would be good and subsequent shots no good
17g in which basket? EP HQ double is for 14g so maybe you are updosing it.
I can try that. To be honest I find it just a bit wasteful when adjusting grind etc. But it's worth a try for sure
Ah in this case, I'm not actually drinking them, just looking for the 'correct' pour from the naked handle. If I drunk all the shots I've pulled I'd be very ver very jittery!!! But, yes, I always flush after each shot to ensure clean screen and TS correct function
EP HQ double. There is oodles of headroom. I know it's a '14g' basket, but I thought 17g would be ok??
In my experience, once you get a good grind setting, no drastic changes are needed. It's true that setting a finer grind you need to have the grinder running but if you know what setting you want this takes very little time / waste. Right now you're wasting more shots it seems ;-)
If you have a 14g basket, getting that right and perfect with 14g is a first requirement. Then later you might try 1g extra or 1g less for any reason like extremely fresh beans or older ones, or a very light roast of a very dark roast. If you want to load 17g, then take an 18g basket and grind a little finer.
It seems you want to start off with a number of wide variables, like over-dosing and single dosing and then getting it all perfect. Maybe too ambitious.
To start eliminating variables I did:
* full hopper in K10
* Stock basket dosing 15.8g
* 7-8s PI
Slightly better but certainly still seems like it's channelling etc...
If the tamped level of the coffee is below the press line you are grinding too fine
If the tamped level of the coffee is obscuring the press line you are grinding too coarse
Running a 10s PI with a 15.8g dose should all but ensure complete PI, which by definition eliminates channelling
How exactly is it better?
You say it "seems like it is channeling". How can it seem to be? I would say either you have channeling, meaning you see occasional squirts of coffee spraying at the side or outside your cup, or you don't.
You could post a video but now I need to make do with your words and if it "certainly seems" I am not sure what you mean...
Yep it was exactly as you said, the pressed groove.
How exactly is it better?
You say it "seems like it is channeling". How can it seem to be? I would say either you have channeling, meaning you see occasional squirts of coffee spraying at the side or outside your cup, or you don't.
You could post a video but now I need to make do with your words and if it "certainly seems" I am not sure what you mean...
I will take a video tomorrow
Thanks for everyones help! Hopefully will get there!
IMS B68 2T 26.5 Basket
Dose: 17.2g
Beans: 4 days post roast (reputable roaster from Brisbane, Cleanskin Coffee)
58.4mm Pullman Tamp
Compak K10PB
I did PI for way too long, normally do 10s (lost count while holding the iPhone) and normally I tap to settle the grinds a couple times on the bench too as per baristahustle.com/how-to-distribute-by-tapping/
Hope it's ok. Clearly still channelling and dead spots...
Check out Kfir's posts as he had a K10PB and I believe he posted a video here of his prep
I don't see it in your video, but would it be worth stirring the grounds with a cocktail skewer or similar as you see Frans do in many of his prep videos?
Reiss
Thanks I'll look it up.
No, I didn't use the cocktail skewer (WDT) in this one. I have tried it in the past and it hasn't made much difference?? I figure the doser is sorta already doing it for me...?
Happy to try it again though, but making another video is time consuming! :P
in addition i would watch one of frans many videos on how he preps the basic as it is simple and effective and doesnt involve the use of acronyms
im a big fan of the KISS principle, assuming it still exists
I did not see or hear the grinder at work. How long ago was the grinding? I did not see you weigh the portafilter before / after clicking the doser to fill the portafilter so how do you know exactly what went in to the basket? There might be some 'retention' in the grinder, older grinds in the chute that you are working with rather than the grinds from the handful of beans you threw in, has that been checked / cleaned?
Offhand, if I had such an extraction I'd redistribute thoroughly.
With the very long pre-infusion I would expect to see some drops appear but one does not. So maybe grind a tiny bit coarser.
The beans are very fresh so performance might change too over the coming 2-3 days.
Yes a full hopper to start off in a standard manner aiming for a standard performance.
I had chance to borrow a grinder to rule out that variable. A Fiorenzato F71EK, 68mm conical electronic.
I'll let the photos speak for themselves :D
Consistent results over 6 shots. I used the stock basket to keep things simple.
Will try my K10 with the big hopper (I have the mini one normally) just to be sure, but it seems the 'old K10PB is due for a burr change
out of interest, were you single dosing it?
The F71? Nah, I would never single dose an electronic grinder. The anti-static screen is designed to retain coffee
However, a few days ago I did fill the mini hopper on the K10, with still poor results as per the original photo & video. I'm going to try the big stock hopper but I really think it's the burrs...
The grinder was second hand so i don't know how many kg the burrs have had. Lucky I have a set in the cupboard
It again illustrates how important it is to get complete, exact and credible information when trying to focus on a possible issue. If you'd told us you were using an old grinder and you had a fresh set of burrs ready to slide in, we could have saved much time ;-)
Glad it got sorted and you can focus on enjoying fantastic Londinium shots.
It again illustrates how important it is to get complete, exact and credible information when trying to focus on a possible issue. If you'd told us you were using an old grinder and you had a fresh set of burrs ready to slide in, we could have saved much time ;-)
Glad it got sorted and you can focus on enjoying fantastic Londinium shots.
No kidding! When buying used just assume you'll need to buy burrs with it and figure the costs accordingly.
That way, if you don't need burrs you're pleasantly surprised and if you DO need burrs you're not surprised.
This reminds me of a saying or two that apply to me- The stingy man spends twice as much. The lazy man works twice as hard... etc.
No harm intended.
i can not over-emphasise how much care and attention needs to be taken in ensuring the burrs are mating together perfectly before you screw them down
it is likely that there will be some degree of radial play and you need to take time and care to ensure you screw the burrs down on dead centre or they will run slightly eccentrically and the resulting grind quality will be below specification for the grinder
the fine pitch thread that the burr carrier runs on also needs to be perfectly clean along its entire length or it will bind when you try to screw it down into position