This forum is now read-only
To login to the new support channel and community forums, go to the Support Portal
Portafilter to Group Seal Kit
Reiss, my L1 has started, intermittently, to hiss and clear water then drips into the cup down the sides of the PF. The handle is approx. at the 7 o' clock position, or slightly towards the 6. I clean the machine, thoroughly, weekly. Do I need to lube the seal? Should I move the PF handle more towards 6 o' clock, which makes it stop, but requires quite a bit of force, or should I replace the seal? I would have thought this was premature, when the machine only went into effective service 3 months ago, although it is used 6-8 times a day. Ian
Comments
I have had a similar thing when I'd also 'thoroughly' cleaned the machine and put the shower screen back with the rubber ring upside down. It was solved when I corrected this.
(I think you can solve this simply in a Skype session with Reiss)
do these observations relate when the machine is idle, or when the machine is in use?
kind regards
reiss.
the 7 o'clock position does not put the portafilter on tight enough - you will get a big surprise in the near future! :ohmy:
the portafilter handle definitely needs to be brought around to the 6 o'clock position to ensure the portafilter is not driven off by the force of the spring during extraction
the seal will go for years in a domestic setting
In my case, the PF is tightened past 6 o'clock, almost into the 5-530 position and I observe the same hiss with water droplets dripping down the side of the PF.
The machine has been in service since March of this year averaging 3-4 shots, daily.
The leak has been observed to only occur when the machine is in use, as I am bringing the lever back up. It used to occur intermittently but now I am seeing it more often and wonder if my group seal requires replacement.
I use an espazzola after every shot and remove the PF occasionally to let the seal rest and relax. I do not believe the area has been fouled up, but will do a deeper clean come the weekend.
Any ideas for how to resolve?
Thank you all in advance.
do you leave your machine on 24/7?
if not i can not imagine that the group seal needs to be replaced
check closely that the group seal is clean - the espazzola will not remove any debris that is encrusted
next, what basket are you using? baskets have different profiles on the rolled edge at the top and some will seal better than others
also inspect the rolled edge of the portafilter basket and check that it has not been dented from being dropped or similar as it will not seal
finally, if you have had the group seal out check that you have put it back in level - it is fairly easy to end up with it inserted on an angle - measure the depth of the seal every 90 degrees and check that it is even
kind regards
reiss.
No, I do not leave the machine on 24/7. It is set on a timer to be on for 7 hours on weekdays and 15 hours on weekends.
I removed the shower screen and seal and could not find any encrusted debris or damage but still encountered the hissing/leaking problem this morning after reinstalling.
What is the best way to install the group seal? Is there some technique to it? I simply pressed it in place as best as I could after replacing the shower screen and then replaced the PF to help push it in place.
I will check again to make sure I installed everything level as you have indicated when I am back from the office.
The baskets I am using are the standard Londinium double baskets that came with the machine. I do not believe they have any damage but will check again to be sure.
Thanks again for all your help.
John
the group seal can go in either way - you will see it has a 45 degree chamfer of both top and bottom
how much of the group seal is hanging below the seal groove in which it lies?
it should only hang down by about 1mm around its entire circumference
also check that the seal is still supple, not hardened by the heat, and does not exhibit cracks at any point when folded onto itself between your forefinger and thumb
if it hangs down by more at some points on the circumference than others it will leak
i think perhaps remove the portafilter basket from the portafilter and drive the seal up further into the seal groove with vigorous use of the portafilter handle around to at least the 4pm position, then add the portafilter basket back in and repeat with the basket on the portafilter - when you are driving the seal on you really want to put some effort in
kind regards
reiss.
I removed and reinstalled the seal per your direction and believe that it was improperly seated in the group head.
I have not fully resolved the leak, but it has certainly improved simply by tightening the PF to the 4 o'clock as you had directed.
I will give the area a good cleaning and reinstall. Will report back if I encounter any further issues.
Cheers
take care the it goes in level too - if it is not level it will leak - it is a very simple arrangement - you need the face of the group seal to be flat and level so the smooth rolled edge of the portafilter basket can present against it and form a watertight seal
what can possibly cause a leak given the above setup?
1. a group seal with a damaged face, eg cracked, gouged, torn, nicked
2. a group seal that has been installed on an angle or with a 'wave' in it
3. a group seal that is not completely clean - if you open the portafilter early while it is still pressurised and with a fully dosed basket it is almost certainly going to blow coffee grounds over the group seal, so be aware that just because it was clean 5 minutes ago it may no longer be the case
4. the rolled edge of the basket is dinged or damaged in some way, such that it can no longer make a watertight seal against the group seal, or if you are careless the rolled edge has coffee grounds on it from when you dosed the basket, again preventing a seal being made
5. portafilter just not driven onto the group hard enough - no need to be silly about it and play strong men as you will only wear the lugs off the portafilter prematurely, but the portafilter does need to be secure on the group, not just sitting there - for example, if someone walking past the machine bumped the portafilter handle with their elbow when a shot was being drawn the portafilter should be on securely enough that it is not knocked off by such an event
that's about all the causes i can think of
I believe that the seal was indeed sitting crooked inside the group allowing a small bit of water to squeeze past upon raising the lever.
After confirming once again that there was no damage to the seal or to the basket, I did a thorough cleaning and replaced the shower screen and group seal. I then worked my way around the perimeter ensuring the seal was seated and then tightened on the PF before pulling my test shot.
Thank you for your assistance Reiss - I'm glad this is resolved but if anything, a bit embarrassed all the fuss was due to a crooked seal on my part!
its all good, thats what this forum is here for
always carefully sit the seal on top of the portafilter (without the basket initially), then present the portafilter up to the group
in this way the seal should be presented level to the seal groove
(as opposed to pushing the seal into the seal groove by hand just enough to over come the force of gravity and then presenting the portafilter up to the group to drive the seal fully into the seal groove - this runs the risk of the seal not lying flat in the seal groove and having a wave or ripple around its circumference, which is likely to produce a leak)
kind regards
reiss.