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First time coffee shop owner, first time barista
Hello all.
I am doing some research on the L2 machine. I am definitely sold on having lever pull espresso in my coffee shop but am wondering if I am biting off more than I can chew. I have worked semi-automatic machines and a small machine in my home. I was hoping to hear from some of you that have been down this road before. Perhaps you can pass on some wisdom. What is the learning curve? If you did not, would you have started with a lever pull from the beginning for purist reasons? Does having a lever pull machine both help with coffee quality and marketability? That's what I have for now. Thank you.
Comments
Still trying to get the Londinium Professional series machine (L1-P) and hope it arrives soon. I sold the home model Londinium to upgrade to the P series machine, which is 1 Group where the other Londinium machies that are P series are the II and the III.
Much easier to service yourself and produce an excellent shot. Lever machines might have come along before pump machines and the pump machines are still trying to catch up to the shot quality. They are getting close but at a terrific expense of initial purchase and ongoing operation/service.
My 2 cents :-)
assuming you find a good local coffee roaster and get yourself a grinder that is as capable as the machine you will be fine
Ceado, Mahlkoenig and Compak all make grinders that i have used and would recommend - we only supply 240V grinders so we are not able to supply you unless you want 240V grinders
i am more than willing to support you for several hours via FaceTime/Skype to ensure that you get the best out of the machine
the milk side of things will be no different from the machines you have used previously
we've sold more than 500 machines to 39 countries to owners with a wide range of skills, from newbie to professional and there is not one person that we have been unable to support from a distance. in the early days, the first 50 machines or so, there were some challenges, but now the process is so buttoned down that the ownership experience is very smooth
kind regards
reiss.
Beau- congrats on your space, looks very cool in the photo. I'm trying to figure out how to get behind the counter, I think there's space on the right of the photo to get in there but at first I didn't see it
I'm a local coffee roaster and have had 2 customers that used lever machines. I bought an L II for a local customer who is replacing her 2006 La Pavoni with it. The levers weren't substantially different besides the obvious physical strength needed over pushing a button.
The maintenance routines for both are very different. The pump machines tend to be enclosed in panels where as the L II has a lot exposed. Each machine requires training for proper use and to understand / avoid hot areas.
As to the shots- Yes, the lever will pull more interesting shots assuming you give it good coffee and a very good grinder. The workflow isn't hugely different, on the lever machine you can control the pre-infusion on each shot. On pump machines this might be programmable, as is the shot time or volume. With a lever the Barista will have to stop the shot manually, which a GOOD Barista should be doing anyway on a semi-auto or auto machine.
I would say on the lever machine a Barista has to be a little more present, which is good. My experience is the more automated things get with a machine the more likely Baristi are to be distracted and work on something else.
Chances are you'd be one of only a few lever machines in your area, this will get some attention in the beginning, which is always nice. The L II is designed to not over heat when being used, like older lever machines. It takes all the high tech 58mm baskets that are available now, the groups are high enough that you can pull shots right into tall cups. So it's a lever with modern considerations.
What appealed to me about the L Ii is that it is smart and simple. No pumps or buttons to wear out, maintenance is pretty mild and operation is very straight forward.
The machine isn't going to make or break your shop, but in some ways it WILL set the tone. It's an esthetic choice as much as a functional one. Whatever you get- give the machine a fantastic grinder, great coffee and good water (filters & scale inhibitors as needed) and you'll be fine.
I really appreciate the feedback. We will definitely be the only lever pull in our city so that is exciting. Currently, we have a water softening system in place. Our intention is to add an RO prior to the espresso machine install. I have read various ideas for water treatment. What are you doing to your water currently? Thanks for the input.
Beau- I've been testing the L II out in a warehouse where we have a scale inhibitor (also a taste / odor filter). When it goes to the retail customer's location it'll have separate filters and water softener as I believe that's what they have there.
The real answer to what you would need depends on your water. Our tech does all the hook ups and filters, water testing. Your water very well might need something different. Find an espresso tech as you'll need one at some point. Find one that you trust, pay him/her what s/he is worth.
Reiss can probably speak to the details about the water going into the your machine. Pure RO water probably isn't the best. There's a point where you don't want it too clean, but you don't want it to be 'hard' either. Some shops get away with a few hundred $$ in water quality control, some spend thousands! Hope you're on the low end of that scale
You definitely need a good grinder to go with the L-II and if cannot try loaned grinders or visit places with the better grinders it is a tough call as to which grinder you use.
The large flat burred grinders, as well as large conicals are (staying in the 83mm and above range) should be the target of your search, imo.
I have been using my L1-P (1/2 of an L-II) for a fcouple of weeks now and the shots are wonderful!
I am in St. Joseph, Missouri, which is about 30 miles north of Kansas City. I have an opportunity to purchase a used Mazzer Major Electronic from my bean supplier. If I did purchase the Mazzer, I would be looking to get something else asap. Do you have any thoughts? Is the Mazzer sufficient for the time being? Thanks.
Beau
We drove through that area about a year ago, dodging storms in our MINI and desperately looking for a good cup of coffee! Here in the Seattle area you cannot drive 10ft without coming to another coffee stand!
If you can try other grinders, loaners, from friends I am sure would give you a better idea of what will work for you. Our local Navy Hospital has a small espresso bar in it that we have used for all the trips we make to that place. The last trip I noticed that the coffee tasted much better. I inquired if they had changed their beans, the reply was no. Then I noticed that they were using a fairly new Mythos!! I asked if that was new and the answer was YES! So, it makes a difference even with pump machines, since they were using an NS 2 Group.
Wish I could be of more help.
There are big flats and big conicals so it boils down to which one is the most bang for the buck. Mahlkonig is making that new "Peak"? and then there are the rather obvious NS Mythos, Compak R-120, and the EK-43. Without having them side by side with the beans you are going to use then knowing which one to choose would be tough; good luck!
In the coffee bar situation you have space to put the big monsters on the bar and not have them dwarf your home kitchen. For me, I opted for the Ceado E37s for the 83mm flats because of price and it fit the kitchen (i don't regret it), but if I had the space the larger grinders might be better.
I know that does not help your situation but I can say that the Ceado E37s is a better choice than the Mazzer because it is so easy to clean the burrs and get it back into dialed in operation. In a coffee bar that would be a consideration.
The conicals seem to bring out the sharper flavors like the citrus and the flats seem to accentuate the chocolates and caramels. So I have both flat and conical depending on the beans I am using.
You could do the same in a coffee shop but you need to buy 2 different grinders.
Now maybe that big R-120 could serve both needs in one package, albeit a rather large package. If I had the space and the money I would get one for sure just to satisfy my own curiosity.
Maybe you read too much ;-) Just kidding. But go and taste the difference between excellent pulls using grinds from different excellent grinders.
Some guys lean to flat or conical burrs, but everyone leans towards better grinders, whatever burrs are used in them.
Overall I find that a better grinder makes it easier to perform really well on a good espressos machine.
Last Saturday i had two young men visiting me and I first made them an espresso each. They were very impressed. Then I let them experiment with different baskets and pull espressos themselves. I knew that using the best grinder and the L1-P they would be amazed by the shots even if the shots were maybe dosed and dialed a bit off the first tries.
Good material makes it very easy and then it's less relevant which type burrs are in the grinder.
Mr. Gregory is not more than a 2 day drive is he? There is one in the Dallas area too as I recall.