Reiss Gunson post=6270 wrote: I know! What about one of those funny old machines the Italians use? What are they called? Oh yeah, a lever espresso machine
When I read all this stuff on the other Forums about some very pricey single Group of multi Group machines about why it cannot do this or that and what the fix could be/why the "Program" is not working properly. Another great one is why water got into the computer section! External pumps required so the machine is acceptable for sitting on a kitchen counter; the list goes on and in the meantime the quaint "Italian Job" is chugging right along :-)
Reiss Gunson post=6261 wrote: and if you put a stick on it the user could spin the card between their fingers very quickly
So this is what my brain came up with this morning. I gave up drawing on the computer because the good programs are way to expensive to get the point across and nothing is scaled to the drawings/ideas I sketch.
I suppose that small fingers protruding into the grounds could stir the grounds at the same time.
I like the gadgets and inventiveness but I estimate that the simplest way is the best way. Stirring the grinds well, tapping level with minimum taps, nutating with tamper, tamping lightly, go.
Frans Goddijn post=6284 wrote: I like the gadgets and inventiveness but I estimate that the simplest way is the best way. Stirring the grinds well, tapping level with minimum taps, nutating with tamper, tamping lightly, go.
That is exactly the reason I never pursued the project!
I haven't found the need for anything beyond a proper finger sweep, then nutation and a light leveling tamp. Of course, I don't dose directly into the basket, but do a timed grind, weigh to check, then use a canning funnel to move the coffee into the basket. Just the normal act of moving the grounds around to do that breaks up the very minimal clumping I get from the MD85 (which was Gaggia's 84mm flat burr grinder, a lesser known, and highly underrated machine).
George Van Wagner post=6286 wrote: Just the normal act of moving the grounds around to do that breaks up the very minimal clumping I get from the MD85 (which was Gaggia's 84mm flat burr grinder, a lesser known, and highly underrated machine).
I have always wondered about that grinder. How long have you had it?
At the risk of bumping this thread ever further OT:
I've had the MD85 for almost 3 years now, after picking it up used from a Coffee Geek member. It is incredibly fast, as you might expect from that burrset. I generally end up with the timer (one of the Auber Instruments timers) set for about 2.5 seconds to get an 18gm dose. If I don't sweep the chute, it's got about 2 grams retention, but I always sweep the chute. Tried single dosie grinding with it, but the popcorning, even with a tamper over the throat, makes the grind a little more uneven than I'd like, so I use the hopper with a week's worth of beans in for consistnent feed and haven't noticed ay freshness issues. The doser sweeps very clean (with a little aid from a brush)
It is big, towereing over the body of the L1 and topping out about halfway up the height of the vertical lever. Even without the hopper, it's not about to fit under anyody's cabinetry.
It's a real workhorse, and I don't expect to ever _have_ to buy another grinder for espresso, just as I expect my Bunn LPG-1 to last the rest of my life for drip and press coffee.
the biggest message from scott rao was a better grinder trumps all other endeavours you will make to improve your coffee
im hopeful he will try the current Compak R120 as when i spoke with him he had not tried the current model
the clarity is incredible & the retention is less than 1g thanks to the driven stainless wire that orbits the inside of the exit chute - how cool is that?
Reiss, what prompted your plan to get the E10 for home use? I was thinking about the K10 PB since that seems to be popular for single dosing but was wondering about the E10 but reviews are scarce right now.
Rao would say the K10PB I expect as he says he's never used a Doserless grinder that doesn't clump
Rao considers clumping a huge problem
I'm not putting myself on anything like Scott's level as a barista, but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to stick my neck out and say my experience is different
So I say that in my experience lever machines 'auto destroy' clumps with their long low pressure PI!
You will have seen me say this before and I am still of that view
However! I think there is another advantage of dosered grinders that you don't see mentioned that much
The doser does a better job of mixing up the grinds, distribution if you like, than a Doserless
But then you have to remember the context in which Rao and other superstars of coffee speak - they are always talking about a cafe environment
A domestic environment is quite different I think
So, if I was setting up a cafe I would probably have some dosered grinders
Why? The pile of coffee in the doser is a great place to rest too fresh coffee for a few minutes, they are less expensive, and they do a better job of distribution
If you are of this persuasion get a K10PB, just as Kfir said many moons ago on this forum
But if you are like me and can't see yourself cleaning out doser mechanisms of stale coffee on a daily basis like some of you seem happy to do, then consider the E10 perhaps
As you know I have a K10 fresh and I'm really over the worm gear adjustment, the stupid electronic grind display from 0-100 that can't cope with the range covered by going from burrs touching (0) to espresso (>100!!!), and the monster grind retention (slightly better than a Robur E) of about 40-50g I estimate
The E10 has a grind pathway based on the K10PB, so retention is dramatically reduced
Dave Hyde has an E10 and is very happy with it and he's tried an awful lot more grinders than I have even seen, let alone used
So those are the pros and cons
Which one you choose will depend on what takes first priority for you Reiss
Comments
Ha! How quaint, they never will catch on....
I'm sure these high tech machines have really moved the game on to new level
[video width=425 height=344 type=youtube]yKQRdexIpdw
Thank you Frans
That method sure is simple, with the exception of having to keep track of all those plastic cards.
And then what happens with a puck that has more grounds on the edges???
Could you give us more information about the water parameter (TDS, Calcium hardness, total alkalinity etc) Scott was talking about?
Regards
So this is what my brain came up with this morning. I gave up drawing on the computer because the good programs are way to expensive to get the point across and nothing is scaled to the drawings/ideas I sketch.
I suppose that small fingers protruding into the grounds could stir the grounds at the same time.
That is exactly the reason I never pursued the project!
I have always wondered about that grinder. How long have you had it?
I've had the MD85 for almost 3 years now, after picking it up used from a Coffee Geek member. It is incredibly fast, as you might expect from that burrset. I generally end up with the timer (one of the Auber Instruments timers) set for about 2.5 seconds to get an 18gm dose. If I don't sweep the chute, it's got about 2 grams retention, but I always sweep the chute. Tried single dosie grinding with it, but the popcorning, even with a tamper over the throat, makes the grind a little more uneven than I'd like, so I use the hopper with a week's worth of beans in for consistnent feed and haven't noticed ay freshness issues. The doser sweeps very clean (with a little aid from a brush)
It is big, towereing over the body of the L1 and topping out about halfway up the height of the vertical lever. Even without the hopper, it's not about to fit under anyody's cabinetry.
It's a real workhorse, and I don't expect to ever _have_ to buy another grinder for espresso, just as I expect my Bunn LPG-1 to last the rest of my life for drip and press coffee.
BTW, that robur clumping of Scottie's video is awful.
im hopeful he will try the current Compak R120 as when i spoke with him he had not tried the current model
the clarity is incredible & the retention is less than 1g thanks to the driven stainless wire that orbits the inside of the exit chute - how cool is that?
Rao considers clumping a huge problem
I'm not putting myself on anything like Scott's level as a barista, but that doesn't mean I'm unwilling to stick my neck out and say my experience is different
So I say that in my experience lever machines 'auto destroy' clumps with their long low pressure PI!
You will have seen me say this before and I am still of that view
However! I think there is another advantage of dosered grinders that you don't see mentioned that much
The doser does a better job of mixing up the grinds, distribution if you like, than a Doserless
But then you have to remember the context in which Rao and other superstars of coffee speak - they are always talking about a cafe environment
A domestic environment is quite different I think
So, if I was setting up a cafe I would probably have some dosered grinders
Why? The pile of coffee in the doser is a great place to rest too fresh coffee for a few minutes, they are less expensive, and they do a better job of distribution
If you are of this persuasion get a K10PB, just as Kfir said many moons ago on this forum
But if you are like me and can't see yourself cleaning out doser mechanisms of stale coffee on a daily basis like some of you seem happy to do, then consider the E10 perhaps
As you know I have a K10 fresh and I'm really over the worm gear adjustment, the stupid electronic grind display from 0-100 that can't cope with the range covered by going from burrs touching (0) to espresso (>100!!!), and the monster grind retention (slightly better than a Robur E) of about 40-50g I estimate
The E10 has a grind pathway based on the K10PB, so retention is dramatically reduced
Dave Hyde has an E10 and is very happy with it and he's tried an awful lot more grinders than I have even seen, let alone used
So those are the pros and cons
Which one you choose will depend on what takes first priority for you
Reiss