Calling Shots: over or under-extracted?

Ben B

Hi all,

Happy to report I was getting along perfectly with my new hg one and L1 thanks to Reiss and Dan Streight. Was dialed in with a pound of Papua New Guinea beans that were producing the best espresso I've had to date (which is hardly anything to brag about). Times, flow and taste were spot on.

Then I ran out of the PNG. Back to square one.

I'm now halfway through a bag of Blue Jaguar from Redbird. just trying to get dialed in with hit and miss success.

QUESTION: is this the brown flecking that indicates over extraction? See photo. It seems I'm not getting as viscous as shots but the timing is right (27g in 27 sec). Flow is either perfect or skewed off center with some channeling and/or dry spots. I'm 2 x whisking to redistribute, rotating the tamp and minimal pressure consistent with current 'best practice' recommendations.

Jeff at Redbird said to wait till day 9 from roast and I'm only at day 4, so im sure that plays in.

Unknown

Brown flecks look good but the very thin whitish crema might not be so good. Maybe extracted a bit to long?

I hope other chime in because I am no ace at diagnosing shots, other than taste bud exposure :-)

Frans Goddijn

The picture looks nice enough.

Dialing in beans that have not had time to rest can be a challenge. Best make sure you have enough beans. I prefer to have several different packs, so I can switch back and forth and I have the time to notice how they develop over a few weeks.

But switching from one to the other is best only if you feel confident that you can manage dialing these in within one or two shots. If you're just starting off, it's by far best to stick to 500g of beans of the same date to the end, so you can enjoy coffee without the trouble of much dialing in.

Your channeling could suggest that you need to grind a tiny bit finer, or try a shorter shot.

Play with it, because you know it's not your equipment that's failing, you had it right with the other beans.

This week, Trevor & I visited a local roaster in Frenchs Forest, Sydney. I will post the video link in the coming week. He told us that some of his roasts are best 3 to 5 weeks after roast date, so that illustrates how just 4-5 days could sometimes be too much of a challenge.

Reiss Gunson

hi ben

thanks for posting!

my thoughts -

1. what is the photo of? the PNG that you liked, or the coffee you are now struggling with?

2. the blond spot in the image is easily fixed by pulled the cup a couple of seconds earlier

3. the chocolate brown as you have it is desirable - you get it at the start of a shot where the coffee has all its goodness still in it (i.e. all the soluble components are sitting there in their highest concentration), and the extraction is starting with maximum heat and pressure. whether this chocolate brown crema is pushed to the edge, or flecked across the entire surface of the shot is generally a function of how the shot pours. contrast that when you have a dark chocolate, almost black crema, and thin across the entire surface of the shot which would indicate the brew temp for the shot was too high

4. day 4 is too early, your roaster is right - i am guessing you are seeing a lot of hissing a spitting and bubbling as the crema flows from the basket? this indicates the coffee is too fresh in my book - too much carbon dioxide locked in the roast. for most roasts i think they need 14 days to rest personally (unopened), but everyone seems to think fresh coffee means still warm from the roaster!

Ben B

Reiss,

The photo was of the Blue Jaguar I was struggling with. The photo was of the shot I pulled this morning after it seemed I got as close to an acceptable shot than I had been able to, prior (after going through almost 0.5lb trying to get dialed in).

I believe you are right with #2 above, that I waited too long to pull the cup off.

#4 (as per reiss above).... so much for eagerness! I've noticed that since yesterday the quality and consistency have really improved. This is without touching my grinder settings or modifying anything else.

CONCLUSION: NOT SO FAST THERE, EAGER BEAN-ER. Let it rest.

Thanks all for your prompt and accurate input. What a great community. More in love with the machine and the support with each day.

Reiss Gunson

if you want all the various elements in the roast (the high notes, the low notes, and the middle notes) to be in harmony, you need to let it rest

if you want the roast to taste fragmented and jagged, then rip into it straight away

Ben B

I'm happy to report that the problem WAS bean timing.

After trying the beans within the time frame advised by Jeff at Redbird (5-11 days), things improved dramatically. Now I've just got to finish the beans before I hit the expiration!

Thanks all for your advice and help!

Reiss Gunson

nice one ben , thanks for reporting back