This forum is now read-only
To login to the new support channel and community forums, go to the Support Portal
New Grinder (No!... NOT grindr!)
I have sold my HG One grinder... Yes I know I said it wouldn't happen... My right shoulder gives me a quite a bit of gyp and it was becoming difficult to use, I kept stalling it especially with hard beans, and it was screwed to the work surface too.
At this moment, I am not contemplating an R100/R120 or EK43.
I know that Reiss has a lot of criticism for the Versalab, but I do like the small compact ergonomics, and it reputedly grinds very well, the two stage burrset might ameliorate the downside of popcorning and the resultant variable grind, and apparently it produces a very fluffy HG like pile in the PF. One of the "Coffee Forums UK" members has one on order, and I will be going to see it sometime soon.
Alternatively, I have thought about the Nino and the Fresh (apparently they use the same Compak conical burrset, which I understand is better than the equivalent Mazzer burrs.
I would appreciate any advice, comments or criticisms from Londinium owner/drivers, regarding a new "keeper".
Finally, I am currently using my old Super Jolly, and I know of one L1 owner who has a Mazzer Mini, bought a Mythos, but seems to have reverted to his Mini. I haven't discussed with him, so it might be interesting to discover why...
At this moment, I am not contemplating an R100/R120 or EK43.
I know that Reiss has a lot of criticism for the Versalab, but I do like the small compact ergonomics, and it reputedly grinds very well, the two stage burrset might ameliorate the downside of popcorning and the resultant variable grind, and apparently it produces a very fluffy HG like pile in the PF. One of the "Coffee Forums UK" members has one on order, and I will be going to see it sometime soon.
Alternatively, I have thought about the Nino and the Fresh (apparently they use the same Compak conical burrset, which I understand is better than the equivalent Mazzer burrs.
I would appreciate any advice, comments or criticisms from Londinium owner/drivers, regarding a new "keeper".
Finally, I am currently using my old Super Jolly, and I know of one L1 owner who has a Mazzer Mini, bought a Mythos, but seems to have reverted to his Mini. I haven't discussed with him, so it might be interesting to discover why...
Comments
interesting times! i'll be interested to see what you decide upon - i know dave hyde thinks highly of Mazzer Konys and others of Mazzer Royals too - I've not used them i don't think
my opinion of the Versalab is simply thus - how can you spend GBP1500 (or whatever the number is at current exchange rates) on importing something from the States, and then have to send it to someone in Germany to get it blueprinted to experience the product at its full potential?
the german guy who does the blueprinting says the motor on it is under-spec, which I'm happy to accept too as he is clearly very good at what he does
ive got an issue with the slider 'dosing mechanism' as I'm not sure how it doses the correct weight for different sizes and shapes of beans, e.g. peabury vs the elephant beans, and if it doesn't then why bother forking out a not insubstantial additional amount for the hoppers - just dose straight in the top
i also have no idea how an exposed spindle gets past safety regs - it certainly is an absolute no no to have a machine in a factory with an exposed spindle so it seems odd that you can sell a consumer product of this design - I'm thinking a little scalping risk for those with long hair, especially a child with long hair standing at about the same height as the grinder, who is intrigued by the noise and comes over to have a closer look whilst the grinder is being operated by a 'responsible adult'
I'm happy to be told I'm wrong on all or some of the above as i have not owned one - it is simply my opinion - i have never dealt with the manufacturer in any capacity - i.e. I'm not a disgruntled former customer or anything like that
i do realise that it is poor form to comment in public on a product that you haven't owned, but stephen has mentioned it so i might as well spell out exactly what my reservations are so there is no misunderstanding
i certainly have no issue with the quality of the grind which there seems to be almost universal agreement on as being of a very high standard
My principal problem with the Versalab is the price... It is nearer £2000 imported, for the basic grinder and the PF holder. The combined hopper/doser is not necessary, as you say... Feed the beans straight in.
There were reports in the mid 2000's when it was first sold, that construction tolerances were a bit "variable", but I understand that they are better now.
As to the "safety" issues and in view of the fact that it has to be imported from the USA, I would suggest that the US government is not quite so anal about H&S as the EU, in other words... buyer beware.
Regarding Terranova (aka Frank), I find him to be very knowledgable, if a little bit excitable and his superb work is proudly shown off by those that have had it done. It brings the grinder into the £3-4,000 territory.
There has been a long thread on "CFUK" in which he took part, and he got into a bit of a spat with several owners that have not and do not intend to have his work performed on their machine. Indeed Dave Hyde, rather slyly asked him why he doesn't build his own grinders!
I suppose what I am looking for, is something that doesn't waste loads of coffee and isn't too fiddly...
Maybe HG have something brewing, they produced a prototype about a year ago with a motor (heaven forfend!).
he makes consistently exceptional espresso and he rates his ninos very highly indeed - very reasonable levels of retention and a nice grind too
i don't like the worm gear grind adjustment if you want to quickly jump from filter grind to espresso, for arguments sake and i don't like the absence of a 'pulse' button, but he will strongly disagree on both these points, and for valid reasons too - i.e. he says a pulse button on a grind that dumps out about 5g per second is useless and he doesn't make dramatic changes in grind as he only does espresso
just check what the after sales support is like - if you want his contact details i can email them to you - he is very approachable
best
reiss.
As to the Versalab, if the one you get from the factory is made well and all aligned then it indeed does grind very well. The pile of grounds is only distinguishable from the HG-One grounds by the shape of the pile! The HG-One grinds into a conical pile and the VL grinds into a volcano mountain pile, but grinds quicker.
Price, yes a real issue on whether to spend money on a new grinder or go on another vacation, because it will cost what a small vacation cost
Bean popping, yes it does it and that is why I made bean poppers out of nice hardwood. Then eventually a friend with a milling machine cut the slot into one that I turned the round parts on my lathe from a block of aluminum.
As to whether a dosing system or single dosing is your thing, I much prefer single dosing with either the HG-1 or the VL and use the Kony-E if I am in a hurry or have a card game going on with friends drinking milk drinks.
Welcome to grinderland :-) That is a Mazzer Kony-e on the right in the last photo.
i.e. grind quality say relative to the HGOne, which many of us here are familiar with as a baseline. r.
It has the same brightness that the HG-1 has and that is sort of expected because it is a conical burred grinder. The VL has a softer taste in the cup and not as bright as the HG-1 or the Kony.
The thing I dislike about the Kony, and all but a few powered grinders is what is left behind in the grinding chamber. Sooner or later it affects the flavors. The Kony retains about 35g INSIDE the grinding chamber. That is not the amount of grounds that are required to expel already ground to get freshly ground. After it has sat all night long I purge a double shot, or use it on a milk drink, before I grind for a straight shot.
As you can see, it is a beast in comparison to the VL. and with the hopper removed completely it will slide under the cabinet uppers. That becomes a PITA to put the hopper on each time you slide it out and want to use it!
Lastly, I think, it has a cooling fan which I suspect it is for the commercial environment and it is loud.
During the months of intense temperature-measurements and logging on the L1, I used the HG One a lot and I did notice it left a mark on my right shoulder. It took a while for that to subside so now I prevent that by alternating more between the HG One and the Mazzer.
The difference between the old Versalab and the Terranova' jobby is stunning.
Is the coffee in the cup different now?
I might end up with a Compak conical?
I might be a bit more consistent and perhaps a bit more smooth. I do seem to get more flavor separation, maybe.
There is a big difference is in main shaft accuracy! But the biggest thing I like is not having the staining of the brass with coffee oils and fingerprints from coffee oils on the cones. It is also a lot easier to clean without having that wrinkle finish or the brushed aluminum finish to deal with. The numerals are just a bonus :-) I have added the tower extension on it as well so I can put what I want under the lower cone.
So far, I seem to prefer the conical grinders and with that said, I have never tried the large burr flats (100mm or larger). I would really like to try the EK43 in espresso mode, alongside the big conicals.
Motorizing my HG-1 thoughts creep further forward in my mind as my shoulders and elbows get older. Maybe keeping the ibuprofen next to the grinder might help?? :-)
Reiss, if I want to get really accurate doses with the Kony-E I grind with a basket and dosing funnel on your scale (on balance) so I know I got it correct. Otherwise it is almost easier to have grounds overflowing the basket and card them off. Seems a waste to me...
Both, but especially the VL one you were holding in this picture:
Excellent video... You seem to be using it without the PF holder. Instead you are using those rings...
Is this to do with mess, is the PF holder messy (the famous plug)?
And is the entry point by Terranova rather than Versalab or yourself?
Do the mods improve the coffee?
That would be Michael B I guess, he has made a massive contribution to the Nino thread on HB...
The mention of the Nino was related to a recent event... Yesterday there was a nearly new Nino being sold by Eric Calderwood, I sent him a PM and he sent me to HB... When I returned the grinder was sold... Never mind. Not a prospect as a new purchase anyway.
Stephen.
very interesting to hear that Eric had a Nino up for sale too - thanks for that
if you are interested get in touch with michael - hint: he has two of them and I'm not sure he still has a need for both, although i could be speaking out of turn
Excellent video... You seem to be using it without the PF holder. Instead you are using those rings...
Is this to do with mess, is the PF holder messy (the famous plug)? Absolutely! The grounds are so fluffy that if you dose into the PF with it held in the VL via springs then it will dump grounds all over the place when it is removed. The Clear Acrylic Funnels I make or the Aluminum Funnels that OE makes work great to keep the grounds inside the PF or basket and allow for WDT without mess
And is the entry point by Terranova rather than Versalab or yourself? When you say "entry point" are you referring to loading point? I suspect so and in the video I was not using the Bean Popper Cap. Although Terranova makes his system better than VL as far as bean popping, I found that I needed the Bean Popper Cap. I made the wooden ones and most of the Aluminum one. The alu one needs a milling machine to make it with the beveled slot, I can turn the other shapes and bore a center hole.
Do the mods improve the coffee? a wee bit, but it depends on the build of the VL. If they had a bad day and maybe let one out the door that was not perfect then who knows. When I measured the shaft wobble (side to side) and the burr wobble(up & down) and then inquired about my findings with VL the only response I got was "they are within industry standards" not saying what those standards were. Not super pleased with that response.
I know that Terranova is building a grinder that that operates on the same burr set but as you can imagine it is exacting in specs. It also has 4 mounting points for the top bearing where as VL has 2 points making it more prone to being knocked out of alignment, not only side to side but up and down. He is also making it a cogged belt drive AND is enclosing it in a in a machined case! It has a variable speed control as well and a heftier motor. I do not know the cost but I suspect it will be way up there, but it is beautiful and I bet bulletproof!