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Tank vs Plumb, advantages & drawbacks?
Are there in-the-cup differences when it comes to considering Plumb vs Tank? Other than the inconvenience of filling the tank, are there other major differences?
Correct me: The LI comes tank standard, with conversion kit to plumb?
Thanks very much!
Correct me: The LI comes tank standard, with conversion kit to plumb?
Thanks very much!
Comments
All things being equal the plumb in set-up is such a wonderfully convenient way to feed water to an espresso machine; its wonderful. And the side benefit of being extremely quiet is yet another reason I opted to switch from tank to plumb in for my LI.
But if your muni/well water supply will require an inordinate investment in water filtering and/or conditioning apparatus you may decide filling the tank to be the lesser of the evils. Or possibly using a FloJet, or similar, pump system and feeding from a 5-gallon bottle of conditioned water as yet a 3rd alternative.
HTH.
thank you for posting your pre-sale question here
there is no difference in the taste in the cup if you fit the plumb in kit
to gain efficiencies all L1s are now built as tank & pump
we then offer an optional plumb in kit who want to enjoy the sound of silence
kind regards
reiss.
I reckon that Dan makes an excellent point here...
It took me a lot of effort to provide my L1 with acceptable water... It would have been much simpler had I opted for the tank version...
I have to add, that I live in London where the water has been drunk several times before it found its way into my machine, but more importantly has been sitting in chalk reservoirs and chalk/scale lined lead/iron/plastic supply pipes. Temporary hardness at London levels will kill your machine very quickly.
So as Dan says, it is important to know what sort of water you have before you make your final decision... The good thing about the L1 now, is that you have to follow the process and buy the tank version first.
Until I bought my machine, I was under the impression that the best water would always be the softest water, I already had a reverse osmosis system, but in the case of coffee, and espresso machines, a degree of hardness is important for flavour and for ensuring that the machine operates properly. That was the difficult bit with my water supply, getting the right amount of hardness.
Indeed, the purest softest water is slightly acidic and could over a long period burn holes in the machine's boiler.
Do you mean to say that either:
(1.) I will not enjoy the results if I were to use Reverse Osmosis water in the L1 tank? (due to the need for some hardness for optimal extraction?)
OR
(2.) Reverse osmosis use with the L1 damage my L1?
I am a proponent of drinking Reverse Osmosis as one's standard drinking water. As such, our kitchen drinking water all goes through a 4 stage Reverse Osmosis undersink system. A Total Dissolved Solids Tester places our water at 7ppm (7 parts per million of non h2o molecules). Average city water can go between 150-400ppm. As a health concern I hope to never have to resort to city water in order to get adequate extractions from the L1...
Thanks to all for your support!
as the uk is sleeping -
1. that's correct, pure RO will give you very bright & sharp espresso, which i am not personally keen on
2. pure RO water when heated does perform as an acid, and for this reason will slowly nibble away at your boiler - this isn't an 'L1 specific' issue - it is a relevant consideration for an espresso machine setup. it won't rot out quickly, but it will decrease the service life of the espresso machine, yes
having said that it is no big issue, you simply need to add a remineralisation filter after your RO unit
these filters vary in composition, but all you need is a 50/50 mix of calcium carbonate & magnesium carbonate and a sufficiently large volume to ensure remineralisation occurs to a sufficiently high level as it is a contact process
kind regards
reiss.
Is there some device or method you recommend in order to test mineral content to ensure the concentration at output post carb/mag filter is sufficient for use in the machine?
we would look to a value of not less than 50mg/L (ppm) and not greater than 80mg/L (ppm)
kind regards
reiss
both extremes will cause you problems - too soft: corrosive acidic conditions in the system, too hard: destructive limescale deposits form in the system
Hi Ben,
I agree with Reiss's replies, but I would add that since you are dealing with RO water, which I assume you are "carbon polishing" post reverse osmosis... Where there should really be 00ppm... As you suggest you are getting around 7ppm, which is what I would expect.
Here's the thing though... The chemical reagent that Reiss suggests is very good, but it takes a little time to use...
In my system, I have used a TDS meter with a dual sensor...
I know that my input from the RO system is going to be close to 00ppm, so I can measure the water as it goes in to the remineralisation filter with the TDS meter, and confirm that we have 00-7ppm, then we check it again with the second sensor on the way off to the storage tank (if you have one), it is here that we get the benefit of this little meter, as the reading it gives now ONLY includes dissolved carbon (from the polisher) and now the mixture of calcium and magnesium that Reiss specifies above in this thread.
Where a TDS meter is the wrong thing to use, is when you are working with water of unknown composition... But you know the composition of your RO water, it is clean, with maybe a hint of carbon (5-7ppm) floating in it.
Reiss did mention that flavour is enhanced if a small amount of hardness is introduced, and this is true, but I have also found that it improves the flavour of the water on its own or in black/green tea too.
As to whether it is worth plumbing in... Now that you have stated that you already use RO, the next step is relatively simple and you won't regret buying an L1, or plumbing it in.
Would you kindly direct me to where I might find such a dual TDS tester, as you had mentioned above, Stephen?
http://www.appliedmembranes.com/pdf/DM-1 Spec Sheet.pdf
http://www.amazon.com/HM-Digital-DM-1-In-Line-Accuracy/dp/B001EHAZGW/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1402668325&sr=1-1&keywords=dm-1
When we moved to the Monterey area almost a year ago (crazy how that year flew by) and to a rental I used my dual stage water filters (sourced from Chris' Coffee) I had set-up and used successfully at our home in Reno. The water here is very "hard" but the post filtration hardness levels were quite acceptable.
But the landlord ended up having a Culligan sodium ion water softener system installed and that eliminated the usefulness of the filter system I had set-up for my LI.
The sodium ion softened water is, at least to me, repulsive to drink. And it nagged at me with every sip of my daily capps and espressos! Fast forward to a couple weeks ago when I decided to try bottled water delivered to my LI via a Shurflo pump (I did not want to go back to the tank feeding of my LI): Although I have not conducted blind taste tests ala a research scientist I can unequivocally state there is a positive difference in the cup between the two water extremes.
I admit the difference in taste between plain water samples compared to the difference in capps/spressos is more pronounced. However there is more clarity in the shots with the bottled water, less harshness and zero salt taste sensation post drink.
So far, albeit its only been a little more than a week since converting to the Shurflo/5-gallon system, I'm very happy with the results and have no intention of going back to either tank fed or sodium ion fed water...
Not so much for sodium reduction, per se, as the taste of the water isn't overly salty; but to test if we could discern the difference between the whole house softened water, which we find unpalatable to drink, and Crystal Geyser which we use for our drinking water (preferred).
Again, the difference between the taste of the two water sources when drinking plain, is night and day. The comparison isn't as pronounced as espresso although you can definitely taste the difference...
I just find it easier to use the Shurflo system...than filling the tank with acceptable softened/tasting water.
Was your decision on Crystal Geyser for mineral content or convenience?
Not being able to previously gauge how much water went through the LI...using bottled water we go through a little less than 1/2 gallon/day for our 3-4 daily capps/espressos (including flushes for temp control and cleaning).
But compared to Arrowhead, Alhambra and a couple others we've tried it has a more "polished" or "rounded" texture/mouth feel and less "metallic" taste. However, not being a water tech/ChemE, I can't offer an explanation.
thank you for your enquiry
it is an ulka pump (it is only being used to load cold water into the boiler - it is not used to load water into the group, so there is no point in using a rotary pump)
you can remove the pump if you choose to plumb the machine into the mains water supply
hope this helps
kind regards
reiss.