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Potential GS/3 to L1 convert - Pls help me decide
Hi
I've been doing a lot of research recently as a prelude to upgrading my home espresso setup. I currently have a La Cimbali DT1 Casa from Chris Coffee that has the preinfusion factory modification. My grinder is a hybrid La Cimbali with conical and flat burrs. The espresso machine is plumbed into the mains and the supply is softened thru an ion-exchange resin and filtered thru carbon.
I just came across a good deal on a LM GS/3 MP and this will be delivered today. However I've been reading a lot of good things about the L1 and in fact went to see a local L2 which is installed at Buon Giorno in Grapevine TX (I'm British and believe the owner David is too). I enjoyed watching the Barista do his stuff but wasn't all that impressed by the flavor of the coffee. They roast their own beans and maybe its just not to my liking. Anyway I couldn't fault the performance and look of the machine.
I have also read of at least one person in Seattle giving up their GS/3 in favour of an L1. Once I find a blend I like I don't tend to change very often so advantages of the GS/3 may be lost.
My plan is to also order an L1 and therefore I have a few questions.
1. What are the real world performance differences between the 240 and 110V machines? I have a 220V output near my kitchen giving me the possibility to bring this supply to the coffee machine. Can the 240V version be used on 220V?
2. I've ready some rather heated threads on HB forum regarding the temperature fluctuations at the head. Issues with thermosyphon? What is really going on and have any design issues that may have caused this fluctuation been addressed through internal mods? I don't see anything specific listed on the thread describing production specs and changes.
3. I see you are about to evaluate a new steam tip. Have you tried the Sproline Foam knife? I generally only steam milk for 1 or 2 cappuccinos (never drink espresso) so great steaming performance is important. Which tip would you recommend? Maybe you'll have a better answer once you have finished your latest evaluation
4. What are the delivery times to the US once the order is placed? Any reported damaged to shipments?
5. What is the warranty period?
6. Its been written that many people are leaving their GS/3's and other highend pump machines for the Londinium. What are the main reasons for that decision?
7. Which grinder do you think is the best match for this lever system and why - Versalab M3 or HG-One or ?
Looking forward to hearing your responses and hopefully ordering a new L1 in the very near future.
Thanks
Haydn
I've been doing a lot of research recently as a prelude to upgrading my home espresso setup. I currently have a La Cimbali DT1 Casa from Chris Coffee that has the preinfusion factory modification. My grinder is a hybrid La Cimbali with conical and flat burrs. The espresso machine is plumbed into the mains and the supply is softened thru an ion-exchange resin and filtered thru carbon.
I just came across a good deal on a LM GS/3 MP and this will be delivered today. However I've been reading a lot of good things about the L1 and in fact went to see a local L2 which is installed at Buon Giorno in Grapevine TX (I'm British and believe the owner David is too). I enjoyed watching the Barista do his stuff but wasn't all that impressed by the flavor of the coffee. They roast their own beans and maybe its just not to my liking. Anyway I couldn't fault the performance and look of the machine.
I have also read of at least one person in Seattle giving up their GS/3 in favour of an L1. Once I find a blend I like I don't tend to change very often so advantages of the GS/3 may be lost.
My plan is to also order an L1 and therefore I have a few questions.
1. What are the real world performance differences between the 240 and 110V machines? I have a 220V output near my kitchen giving me the possibility to bring this supply to the coffee machine. Can the 240V version be used on 220V?
2. I've ready some rather heated threads on HB forum regarding the temperature fluctuations at the head. Issues with thermosyphon? What is really going on and have any design issues that may have caused this fluctuation been addressed through internal mods? I don't see anything specific listed on the thread describing production specs and changes.
3. I see you are about to evaluate a new steam tip. Have you tried the Sproline Foam knife? I generally only steam milk for 1 or 2 cappuccinos (never drink espresso) so great steaming performance is important. Which tip would you recommend? Maybe you'll have a better answer once you have finished your latest evaluation
4. What are the delivery times to the US once the order is placed? Any reported damaged to shipments?
5. What is the warranty period?
6. Its been written that many people are leaving their GS/3's and other highend pump machines for the Londinium. What are the main reasons for that decision?
7. Which grinder do you think is the best match for this lever system and why - Versalab M3 or HG-One or ?
Looking forward to hearing your responses and hopefully ordering a new L1 in the very near future.
Thanks
Haydn
Comments
I'll try to answer our questions but I don't live in the US:
1. The 240v 2400w heating element will get the machine to full pressure more quickly than the 110v 1400W element, recovering from steaming will be faster as well.
You can use the 240v L1 in a 220v outlet, here in Israel standard AC voltage is 220 V at 50 Hz and the machine works fine.
I'd say if you have a 220v outlet and you are not going to move the a different place without such a socket get the 240v L1.
2. No temperature stability problems and no design changes implemented today (that long thread on HB can be confusing), all you need is to do a quick flush after each shot and the machine will always idle in optimal temp for brewing.
3. I have the first edition of the L1 with the old steam wand and a four hole 1 mm steam tip and it's very (very) good, a lot of power but still gentle enough to steam even 150ml of milk.
4. Maybe Reiss can answer that, the delivery itself should be very quick according to feedback's I've read from US owners.
Damage ? I didn't read about any major problems but I know that Reiss invested a lot of time and effort to make the packaging bulletproof.
5. 1 year if I remember correctly, the support is great and responsive for any issue you may encounter.
This is a very simple machine compared to a GS3, a basic technical skills and a couple of wrenches and hex keys is all you need.
6. I also replaced a very good pump machine (Elektra T1) and never looked back.
Until I decided that a lever machine is suited for me, I owned several "home lever" machines such as La Pavoni, Ponte Vecchio Lusso and others including a Bezzera Strega.
After getting the L1 I decided to sell them all...
For me a good lever shot is more creamy, balanced and sweet.
The acidity is different and the shot itself has a different mouth feel to it, you can taste more subtle notes in the coffee that is hard to detect in a pump machine shot.
7. Whatever works for you today with the DT1 should be just fine, I prefer the large conical's and I own a K10 PB.
Hope this helps ...
Kfir.
Where are you located Haydn?
So, the LM machines interest me for their PIDs and their double boilers. But a L1 would be cheaper, perhaps easier to maintain, and retain the enjoyment of using a lever. I'm going to move on from my Cimbali, but not sure which way I'll go. I think I could be convinced to go the L1 route if I was confident that the brew temp was good and velvety machiattos were easy. I've also read the threads on Home-barista so was glad I found this also.
Thanks,
Barry.
hi barry
i am very happy to warrant that this is the case
kind regards
reiss.
I am using my Londo for last couple of months and while its not temperature stable throughout the shot as say Synesso Hydra, its capable of holding its own against the best. What's more important is that machine is temperature stable in sense that it will deliver close to same water temperature to coffee every time you pull the shot. With commercial group head lever machine this comes down to the temperature of group-head. If this is not stable you'll have to dance to pull good shots. Londo group-head temperature is stable all day long and hovers at about 180F-185F which is key to deliver 198F-201F water to coffee with declining temperature profile throughout the shot. I cannot underline how important this is.
Of course, the shots are not the same as say Synesso, GS/3, but that is the case no matter what lever machine you use. Lever and pump machines simply have different taste profiles. With declining temperature and pressure profiles on levers the taste will simply be different.
I can say that Londinium as far as taste of espresso is concerned, delivers as tasty shots as any top machine, different tasting shots, yes, but on level of goodness comparable. I enjoy them just as much as shots from my Synesso.
How is taste different? For me the lever shots are rounder, for lack of better description. They are softer, bit mellower. Don't take this as inferior rather just different.
Honestly with good grinder (and this is also critical) you really can't go wrong with buying Londinium 1. And I pulled fantastic shots with 16 grams of coffee as well as 20 grams of coffee so you are not limited that way either...
Hope this helps.
The shots are smooth and with a bit of tinkering with the grind/tamp and pre-infusion you can get a pretty mellow, sweet, shot.
The GS/3 was easier to change temps of the brew and steam boilers (although I thought the PID operation was ponderous!) but find a bean that you like and use it. The worst thing you would have to do is pop off the top panel and adjust the P-Stat to change temps.
I had my GS/3 side by side with the L-I and loved the taste of the shots with the same beans and same grinder at the same time.
If you have the ability to use 240V then do so. Same with the GS/3(I think it had 240v option, I know it had a high power/low power option).
Where are you located?
That said I doubt I will get another GS/3 after looking at the inside of the chassis. I consider the Cimbali relatively easy to work on as once all the panels are off everything is reasonably accessible. Not so the GS/3. Its all packed in there like a the engine bay of modern high performance car. Great engineering but not user friendly for the casual DIYer.
The L-I is something that could be operated just about anywhere there is power without fear of the precious electronic board going T.U.
If I could justify the $8500+ entrance fee this would be the top of my list as the perfect espresso machine. I got to try a 2 group Slayer that was recently installed at a coffee shop in Dallas. I believe its the 2nd unit in TX. The pressure profiling is what really sets this apart from the rest. Looks spectacular too, especially in that orange powder coated finish.
I'd be specifically interested in how the steam on your LM compares to your Cimbali Junior. I can see that a good design of a machine, pump or lever, can give comparable thermal stability for brewing with a minimal flush routine, but i'm wondering if any single boiler design can compare with the steam of a dedicated boiler that your LM has.
To me personaly, helping someone to decide seems impossible. You can gather information but you must follow your very own heart/mind and make the best of your own decision.
Some people keep on hopping from one "ideal" machine to the next promise. Others make up their mind and seem to lose the impression that the grass is greener elsewhere and that a new purchase could accomplish what experience and dedication can.
I frequently drink superb coffee at specialty coffee places and this can be inspiring to aim for that specific taste pattern at home, and I mostly get that too.
Since I got my L1 I've never tasted better coffee. I can make wonderful coffee on my other machines as well, frequently just as delicious even, but at least for me it's most easy to accomplish it on the L1.
I like that single group Slayer, but for a $8500 machine which seems to be the paradigm of the high tech coffee machines, I'd expect full-range features, however seems it lacks volumetric dosing which I don't understand why... Even my old La Spaz Vivaldi had this...
A Speedster might be a fun thing to have, if i could spare the cash and have more than enough for the service contract of the guy coming by frequently to keep it in shape.
Certainly not a fan of that handle too...
Real high tech!