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Grinder recommendations for L1 for domestic use
I am looking to purchase an L1 for my home but am holding back until I can decide what grinder to go for.
The Compak K10 Fresh looks great but is it the best grinder for low volume domestic use and single dosing ? Some of the forums indicate this is not that suitable for low volume domestic use as there is a fair bit of retention and it is not effective with small amounts of beans or single dosing.
The K8 has bigger burrs so is this not a better machine ? Its certainly a lot cheaper.
The Compak Pro Barista doesn't seem to come in doserless configuration but seems to be recommended for domestic use.
I am also looking at the Mazzer mini E but I have also been told that the Eureka Mignon is no different in performance to the Mazzer Mini E. So I am going from possibly shelling out £1700 to £280 - that's a massive difference and surely the cheaper I go the poorer the quality. But where to draw the line ?
Are there any recommendations - I don't want to take a chance and compromise on quality. I want to get the best out of the L1 but I am also aware that my consumption is low volume and I would like the flexibility to change beans and grind for different machine types. I'd very interested in to hear your experience.
The Compak K10 Fresh looks great but is it the best grinder for low volume domestic use and single dosing ? Some of the forums indicate this is not that suitable for low volume domestic use as there is a fair bit of retention and it is not effective with small amounts of beans or single dosing.
The K8 has bigger burrs so is this not a better machine ? Its certainly a lot cheaper.
The Compak Pro Barista doesn't seem to come in doserless configuration but seems to be recommended for domestic use.
I am also looking at the Mazzer mini E but I have also been told that the Eureka Mignon is no different in performance to the Mazzer Mini E. So I am going from possibly shelling out £1700 to £280 - that's a massive difference and surely the cheaper I go the poorer the quality. But where to draw the line ?
Are there any recommendations - I don't want to take a chance and compromise on quality. I want to get the best out of the L1 but I am also aware that my consumption is low volume and I would like the flexibility to change beans and grind for different machine types. I'd very interested in to hear your experience.
Comments
I have no experience of the grinders that you mention Gavin, but if you want to do the above, I reckon that the HG One would be a fine choice... I have had one for around 15 months now, and I have no plans to change.
thanks for posting
if money is no object get a Mahlkoenig EK43 - single dosing, close enough to zero retention, and critically a very consistent particle size & shape (which produces phenomenal clarity in the cup)
stephen has mentioned the HG1 which he is very happy with, as are a good number of others on this forum, but you will already know whether manual grinding is for you or not - people fall into 2 distinct camps on this issue
the HG1 gives you Mazzer Robur grind quality for Mazzer Mini money
the K10 fresh does have high levels of grind retention for domestic use
the K8 is totally different as it uses flat burrs, rather than the conical burrs of the K10
kind regards
reiss.
I think the HG One on paper ticks most of my boxes apart from speed. Am I right in thinking it takes 20 turns and approx 20 seconds to grind enough for a double Stephen ? I like the quality, consistency and lack of waste of the HG One but I think it would drive me nuts cranking out the grinds each morning - how do you find it ?
Reiss I wonder about operating the EK43. The K10 Fresh has nice electronic features that allow easy selection of different grind types, fine-ness of grind and other settings. I assume like the L1 that the EK43 just has to be "learned" and over time you will determine how much coffee and what grind settings are optimal depending on machine and bean.
Does anyone have any experience of the Versalab M3 - from my brief googling it seems to be a motorised HG ONE. Does it deliver the goods quicker than the HG ONE with the same level of quality ?
I have a bunch of grinders currently (HG-One, Kony-E, Versalab, Pharos, Lido2, and a couple of antiques). The grinder that Reiss mentions, the Mahlkoenig EK43, is probably the best of the bunch for zero retention although I have not tasted what it produces.
The Versalab has zero retention as does the HG-One and the Pharos but it goes back to hand grinders or not. The VL has a slightly less bright flavor to what it produces in the cup.
I use the Kony-E daily since my first shot of the day goes to my wife who drinks milk drinks (retention not an issue with milk) and the fresh grounds for the second and third shots go to me.
Good luck with you search.
this means that if you are inclined you can mark on the settings for the various beans that you use
then you just weigh you beans and drop them in - whoosh!
oh, did i mention the speed? all done in a fraction over 2 seconds! - seriously quick
but i would advise against turning it on & off for a session of coffee - i.e. if you are making 6 drinks leave it running - it is a big 1300W single phase motor and they don't enjoy being turned on & off in quick succession that much
And this grinder, like most commercial/pseudo commercial designed grinders suffers from serious grind retention which for my 3-4 double espresso each day and my OCD tendencies...was the killer. It now resides in someone else's kitchen
So...in my mind there is still a big slot opportunity, for which a grinder has not emerged, for the home espresso/coffee enthusiast: Essentially a powered version of the HG-One that doesn't require the equivalent of "balancing and blueprinting" (hot rod engine mod speak from the automotive sports car world)...and also can serve double duty, equally of course, for espresso and coffee.
If you don't mind the slight inconvenience of hand cranking the HG-One or modded Pharos will provide incredible cup quality for espresso with essentially zero retention and for a relatively reasonable sum of $.
Reiss: This is your next product category! Once you get the LIII on the line you'll soon find yourself bored and looking for a new project!
a sawn-off EK43 is what you want - i.e. just mount it on a shorter base - it was designed as a shop grinder with the height to accommodate at least a 250g bag hanging down
ideally in 3 phase when you get to motors of this size, but again, how many people are going to pull 3 phase into a domestic setting?
Also the price of the EK43 is really high, sure from the reports it looks like the best grinder but are you going to live with it every day ? is it convenient to use like a Mazzer or a Compak ?
I think that the HG-One is a great option if you are not bothered to hand grind your coffee, for a doserless grinder I would stay away from the Mazzer mini E (Had one in the past and didn't like it) and go for the K10F/Kony or Ceado E37s.
Personally I don't really like the K10F and I much prefer the K10 Pro Barista over it.
I prefer single dosing and being able to switch beans easily and the K10F is not the best grinder for that task (as for other big doserless as well).
Think about it, in a domestic environment you usually grind 3-4 times a day, have 2-3 types of coffees at home and you want to be able to change beans and not to waste a lot of coffee between adjustments or to dump stale grounds so grinders that allow single dosing easily are the most suitable for doing that.
The K10 Pro Barista is on my counter for 2 years now, last year I added a K10F and decided to sell it after 6 months and never looked back, not because it's a bad grinder but because it's not suited for home use unless you drink a lot coffee from the same type and don't mind throwing a double shot every morning or between adjustments.
If you don't go for the HG-One or a dosered conical like the K10 PB the Ceado E37s is worth a serious look.
Good luck.
Kfir.
the uniformity of grind size and shape is simply a class above and beyond any mazzer robur, compak k10, etc, etc that i have ever used
if you want the best there is now a clear answer I'm afraid - simply head and shoulders above the rest
you do lose some body, but it gives back sweetness and clarity
and the 'less than 360 degree' dial on the front means you can jump from filter to espresso instantly and precisely
and did we mention the speed? whoosh! done!
if you have the coin & space is no issue i can't think why you wouldn't get one
I have also questioned if I can adjust my routine to accommodate a bit of manual grinding in the morning. All things considered I have surprised myself in going for the HG-ONE. L1 and HG-ONE both manual both silent (L1 with plumbed in option) seem to fit well together. I think Dan hit the nail on the head for me - there is no domestic grinder in price quality or footprint that fits the bill.
So decision is made for now anyway. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Who knows - you may see a post from me in a couple of months looking for a recommendation for someone who can do me a "sawn-off" EK43 !
If you have the energy to crank the HG-One then that is the best bang for the buck, unless you count the Pharos, which to me has about zero taste difference from the HG-One and I own both.
"I now use anfim with L1, but I would like to replace EK43 .. super can achieve uniform extraction needs!"
the EK43 is a very fine grinder sarah, there is no doubt about that
I'm enjoying the R120 from compak too, but i want to take my time before i endorse it
this is not because i have reservations or issues with the R120, but simply because my credibility is very much at stake
so far i have established this about the R120 -
1. the retention is currently in the order of 0.2g, or less, which i think is exceptional & far exceeds my expectations
2. just like the EK43 the R120 brings wonderful clarity to the cup, but the price to be paid is a loss of body. this will upset those who expect a traditional espresso more than it will upset the third wave guys, but it is undeniably a characteristic of large diameter, flat burr grinders
3. just like the EK43 the R120 magnifies even the slightest burnt note within the roast relative to even a high quality large conical burr grinder like a K10 fresh or Robur electronic. so moving from a large conical to a large flat is almost guaranteed to see you move to a lighter roast
4. i have not yet broken in the burrs on the R120 and I'm in no particular rush to do so as i want to travel the entire journey from new burrs to fully broken in
5. i tend to compensate for the lack of body by winding up the dose to 20g, and slightly more heat (less than 0.1 bar increase in boiler pressure - about 0.008 bar increase indicated on my gauge as the greater mass of coffee means it needs more energy (heat) in the water to achieve an optimal extraction. the gauges on these machines (like almost all espresso machines) are indicative only and i am not suggesting for a minute that they are capable of measuring such a small increase in pressure accurately, but the point at which the element turns off has been increased by this amount as indicated on the gauge)
I was thinking that the OE Lido 2 might be a good solution. You mention that you have one, but you don't say anything about using it. Why do you recommend the seemingly fussier Pharos instead?
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-revolutionary-rok-coffee-grinder/x/771622
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnUuGWgLmos
It will not replace any grinder I have, but it looks very cute, it's very affordable and it might deliver great grinds too.
Laurence, the Lido 2 is harder to dial in and it does not, for me at least, get as good a taste in the cup. It does however have an exceptional bean loading and grounds catching characteristics. I use the Lido for travel, sold the fully modified (VDD) Pharos and use the HG-One at home. I do not drink enough to justify using my Kony-e daily and only use it for card game night :-)
Cheers!
Stephen
Not all that one sees as "pastic" is made of soft 'Tupperware' stuff ;-)
Inside the wiper motor I saw that there is at least one "plastic" gear and that thing takes a LOT of torque and has probably done over many years before ending up in a box doing different chores over time for Tije and now on the HG One.
A guy making a Delrin piece of gear himself on the lathe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBP_yr9eFak
More information here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene
From the Dutch barista forum:
Translated, in brief:
Also:
Translated:
The ROK does have Delrin gears already ;-)
The HG One is very much bigger.
Frans, be sure and report as to how well it grinds City Roasted beans once you take delivery of it please :-)
I made 2 deflectors to stop the blast of grinds. The larger cone extends well into the the wiper arm on one of the spoke arms. (I forgot to design it into the design). A jeweler's file will make a slot for the arm.
STL files are included in the zip one for the large and one for the small cone
Mazzer chute Pattern
Mazzer chute pattern install directions
MazzerDoserDifuserCone.zip
I did this with the new 2014 Tumbler and soon will do it with the original HG-One Blind Tumbler.
This is the result.
Attached files
Mark
Wish I had a lathe - maybe Christmas!
I hope Santa has large things that do not fit down the chimney awaiting you in his sleigh :-)