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Lever juddering

A couple of weeks ago I noticed my lever was not returning smoothly during an extraction so I regreased the chamber and seals. The seals are only a few months old. It was then all working smoothly again. However today the lever is again juddering during an extraction. I removed the shower screen and did find it somewhat clogged with Loxeal around the edges. I used some Disolveit to clean it up and that seemed to help but the lever is still not as smooth as normal. Is this a sign that the shower screen mesh is still clogged or that the lever needs more grease, or something else?

Comments

  • hi rob

    any juddering of the lever indicates a dry sleeve in the group

    address by applying grease to the entire surface of the sleeve - if you miss patches it will not resolve the issue

    as always, pump the lever 30-50 times before putting the shower screen back in place so as not to foul the screen with the excess silicone grease

    kind regards

    reiss.

  • Hi Reiss,

    I've regreased again and that has resolved it, thank you. Strange, as when I replaced the seals I thought I was more generous with the grease than I had been previously, must have missed a spot. I had actuated the lever quite a few times to try and get the excess grease out but obviously not enough. Gave it the full 50 this time.

    Can you recommend the best solvent to remove the grease from the shower screen (that is available in the UK)? I have two screens so I can easily alternate and give one a good cleaning, so can soak it for a while if need be.

    Thanks,

    Rob

    1. Acetone
    2. A citrus solvent (various brands available - i use the one shown in the image below)

    whichever you choose, i think it goes without saying to rinse well afterwards under a running tap


  • Hi Reiss,

    Me again. The lever has started getting jerky again today. I've never had issues like this before when regreasing. Any ideas? I was pretty thorough in my application of the Loxeal this time. I don't know if it is connected but the extraction channelled horribly. That never normally happens, usually beautifully tidy extractions. It was a new bag of beans from a roaster I have not tried before, so possibly unrelated.

    Thanks,

    Rob

  • hi rob

    with the group top removed from the group, inspect and grasp each of the 3 piston seals individually and rotate them to ensure they are seated in the seal groove around the entire circumference of the seal - it would be easy enough to have one of the three piston seals slightly twisted or not fully seated, which will cause an issue

    grease the entire surface area of the sleeve, rather than the piston seals themselves

    kind regards

    reiss.

  • Hi Reiss,

    I am not sure what the issue was but the lever started moving smoothly again without any intervention. I took out the group and rotated the seals anyway just to make sure. When I lubricated I did apply the grease to the sleeve in about the amount you suggest in your guide video, only a very light amount on the seals themselves.

    One thing I have noticed is that the spring does look like it touches the sleeve as there is always a grease mark on it. Not sure if that might cause any issue?

    Thanks,

    Rob

  • is the bottom of the spring fully seated over the shoulder of the piston, or is it cocked up slightly?

  • Do these photos allow you to tell?

    Sods law that not sooner do I say it is ok and the next shot is jerky again!


  • hi rob

    any chance of a video clip?

    kind regards

    reiss.

  • edited November 2020

    Hi Reiss,

    Here you go. Problem is happening consistently again now. Sound on to really hear how jerky it is.


    Any ideas would be greatly appreciated to help get back to normal.

    Thanks,

    Rob

  • hi rob

    thank you for the clip

    1. are you using loxeal grease? i assuming so, but worth checking
    2. when you regreased the sleeve did you remove the shower screen so you could focus your efforts on greasing the lowermost part of the sleeve, where the piston primarily travels? (as opposed to the uppermost section of the sleeve where the piston does not travel)
    3. assuming (1) and (2) are yes, i suggest you take a dollop (20p size) of loxeal grease and push it into the gap between the coils where they come very close together right at the bottom of the spring so the grease acts as a damper and stop the spring resonating, which i believe it what you are experiencing
  • Yes to 1 and 2.

    On 3 I have already added grease to the coils to try and quiet them down and to lubricate where they touch the sleeve. I can add some more but the lever looks like it is slipping. The juddering is quite violent, especially towards the end of the shot, and the group looks like it wants to pull itself apart. I can see lateral play at the “axle” at the top of the group as it judders which can’t be healthy.

  • hi rob

    your reference to lateral play sounds odd and makes me wonder if both the left and right chrome hex screws are secure in the group head?

    you will need an 8mm hex/allen key to check - do not loosen the screws if they are tight, you are merely using the hex key to check they are not loose

    please do not remove either screw or you will create a problem as they are holding the spring under compression

    if there was a problem one or both of them would clearly be loose, rattling around even if you stuck your little finger in the hex keyway to turn it

    please be aware that the chrome screw on the RIGHT side of the group, as viewed from the position of the operator, has a LEFT handed thread; do not damage the thread as it would be an expensive fix

    we can also do a video call; i am free presently

    kind regards

    reiss

  • Hi Reiss,

    I think the screws are tight, it was more that the grabbing and slipping of the piston is so strong that it is wagging the lever left/right on the screw.

    I have taken the group out and added a dollop of grease to the spring as you suggested. I also reapplied grease to the lower part of the group and everything is once again fine. There is still a slight groan, but that's not an issue.

    Time will tell as to whether the problem reoccurs. It does seem to be a new issue as when I have reapplied grease in the past it has been good for months. Is there anything you could think of that would be causing the seals to be pushing out all the grease? The bottom section of the sleeve did feel pretty dry once again. Has the spring contact with the sleeve worn it over time perhaps? I'd think that should result in leaking and slipping rather than grabbing and sticking if you see what I mean.

    Thanks,

    Rob

  • hi rob

    do check that the piston seals are facing the correct way (bottom seal has the open side of the V facing down, middle seal up, top seal down)

    do grasp each seal in your hand and rotate it to check that it is fully seated into the seal groove

    check that all the seals appear to be the same diameter and profile and non of them have any moulding sprue on them

    other than that i think it is time for a video call

    kind regards

    reiss.

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