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GFCI tripping

I installed the digital preinfusion kit about 6 weeks ago with no issues. Today my Londinium R has started tripping my GFCI outlet within a few seconds of being turned on. The white light turns on right away but it trips the GFCI before the red light turns on. I looked inside and saw no loose wires or moisture. Otherwise I'm not sure how to go about diagnosing the problem.

I have tried running other appliances on the GFCI outlet with no issues, so I'm pretty sure the problem is inside the LR.
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Comments

  • hi Leo

    thanks for posting. things that have caused this in the past are (i) the Mater pressure switch (which you no longer have) and (ii) cracked or chipped ceramic insulators around the immersion element resulting in current leakage, although you report that it is tripping before the red light illuminates, but not by much im guessing?

    perhaps start by sending me some well lit images of the insulators on the exposed end of your immersion element?

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • Is this what you're looking for?

    I also plugged the machine into a different outlet, and the circuit breaker immediately tripped when I turned it on.

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  • they look to be in extremely good condition to me.

    perhaps lift the lid on the Sirai pressure switch and if the screws in the middle contact pair were not removed at the factory check that one of them has not rattled loose and dropped into the body of the switch as i have seen that happen before; it will have spot welded itself in place if that is the cause

    ***be sure to have unplugged the machine from the electrical supply before taking the lid off the Siari as this is switching the full current drawn by the element***
  • I'm not sure what I'm looking for inside the Sirai but this is what it looks like:

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  • where the wires are screwed into the terminals i would expect wires to be mounted in the left and right terminal pairs and the middle pair to be unused; i.e. no wires mounted

    are the screws still secure in the middle pair of terminals, or has one of them fallen out?

    reiss.
  • OK, I understand now. I stuck a dental mirror inside and was able to confirm that there are two screws in place down the middle. No loose screws anywhere.
  • what about the back of the ON/OFF toggle switch? any signs of heat there?
  • I tripped the breaker a couple of more times by turning the machine on, but after doing that there was no noticeable warmth behind the on/off switch. To my untrained eye everything appears normal there.
  • no discolouration/charring?
  • Not that I can tell. The only discoloration I noticed was a little bit at the bottom of the Sirai, at the sides near the spring. You can see it in the pictures above. It's not dramatic and I don't know if it's significant or not.
  • the power cord or plug hasn't been yanked, cut, melted, crushed, etc?

    is the earth wire (yellow & green) still securely terminated to the chassis?
  • The power cord looks like new. I haven't abused the machine at all. It's been sitting in the same place for two years, and I haven't opened it up since installing the digital module.

    There is a teal cord that is securely attached to the chassis, next to the grounding symbol.
  • im not sure

    if it were me i would look very closely for a water leak or a loose wire

    are all the wires on the immersion element secure and also all the wires connecting to the Sirai pressure switch and also the wires connecting to the back of the ON/OFF toggle switch

    the first place i would look is where the pump joins the pump motor, and as a long shot where the wires enter the plug in the top of the pressure transducer

    are all the connections you made when installing the pressure transducer secure? look to the F1 and F2 Gicar connections and the red orange and blue wires screwed into the brown nylon terminal connector

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • as an idea try disconnecting one of the wires (white or black) that power the pump motor and see if that stops it tripping.
  • I have double checked every connection by disconnecting and reconnecting, including the Gicar connections and the six red/orange/blue wires screwed into the brown connector. I'm not sure what you mean by where the pump joints the pump motor, but I did check every wire.

    There's not a hint of moisture anywhere.

    I disconnected the pump motor and that did not stop it from tripping the circuit breaker (instantly).

    After that, I reconnected the pump motor and disconnected the immersion element instead. When I did that the machine was able to power on for about 5 seconds before tripping the circuit breaker.

    I also tried disconnecting the power cord from the on/off switch. The circuit breaker doesn't trip, so I doubt that the problem is in that cord.

    I've ordered a multimeter. I haven't used one since college but maybe that will help with the diagnosis.
  • check the continuity on the immersion element when your multimeter arrives. unusual for it to fail on a 2018 machine but not impossible.
  • There is also continuity between each of the immersion element terminals and the boiler itself (2 ohms for one, 10 for the other). I believe this is abnormal, have we found the problem?
  • It looks like my prior post didn't appear, but the continuity across the terminals was normal (12 ohms). I also noted that I realized that I had not fully disconnected the immersion element yesterday when I tried testing it. Today I disconnected the heating element completely and was able to turn on the machine and operate the pump without issues.
  • hi leo

    so are you saying that as a result of testing with a multi meter that you have confirmed that there is continuity in the immersion element, however there is current leakage from the immersion element to the boiler, which is causing your GFCI to trip?

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • Exactly, yes.
  • ok. would you mind posting an image with the wires pulled off the terminals on the heating element so i can see if the terminals are protruding 'on axis' from the ceramic insulating sleeves. you will probably need to take images from plan view and side elevation to confirm this.

    in other words there must be a crack in one of the ceramic insulators for the current leakage to occur, and for that to be the case i would expect one of the terminals has been bent off axis, resulting in the ceramic insulating sleeve cracking

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • It's hard to get good pictures, but I think that the lower terminal has a crack in the sleeve.
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  • for sure, the crack is clearly visible. if i send you a new element have you got a 38mm socket (and a breaker bar to drive it)
  • Not on hand but I can get one.
  • good. be sure to get a deep version, as shown in our webstore; https://londiniumespresso.com/store/parts?product_id=166

    they are also available as a shallow version but that will not clear the element terminals; the deep version will

    be sure to use a breaker bar, not a ratchet, and strike the breaker bar with a hammer to shock it free as shown here; https://londiniumespresso.com/forum/permanent-file/715-changing-the-immersion-element

    perhaps drop me an email to confirm that you want me to send the element and gasket to the same address as we sent your machine to

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • Reiss,

    The element has arrived. While trying to get the socket onto the old element, I've found that the thick black power cord gets in the way and there's no way to bend it enough to make enough space. I'd like to simply remove it but there is a black part that holds it in place on the chassis. Is there a good way to remove it? Ideally without destroying it?
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  • hi leo

    im not saying you are wrong, but it will be the first machine in the history of londinium where the power cord has needed to be removed to change the heating element; we even put that recess in the frame specifically to accommodate the element change
    when your 38mm socket arrives get physical with it and use the socket to simply push the power cord out of your way; most like to the left, towards the front panel i would expect. it will move. the socket has rounded edges and will not cut or damage the cable

    im happy to assist via FaceTime or whatsapp

    you really dont want to have to remove the cable gland, its a real pain (you ideally need a cable gland tool) and to the best of my knowledge no one has ever needed to

    kind regards

    reiss.
  • On further experimentation I think that the problem is that the recess in the chassis is not fully aligned with the element, and my socket is a deep cylinder shape. The front corner of the recess is in the way. I see in your pictures that yours is not as long so that it's narrow at the point where it reaches the chassis. I'll probably need to find a smaller 38mm socket.
  • i can send you one if its turning into a pain.
  • I think I found one that will work, but if not I may take you up on your offer.
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