Pump not preinfusing shot

John McCarthy

At first I thought pump failure. But the pump works fine to refill boiler.

Checked wiring, etc. Nothing obvious.

Any suggestions on troubleshooting?

It's been flawless until now.

Bob

Reiss Gunson

hi john

replace Mater pressure switch like for like, or for a more durable solution upgrade to the pressure transducer

kind regards

reiss.

John McCarthy

That was done a year or so ago.

Pressure transducer???

Bob

Reiss Gunson

hi john

the kit can be found here; https://londiniumespresso.com/store/espresso-machine-parts/p-271-digital-pre-infusion-kit?order=DESC&sort=p.price

the installation video can be found here; https://londiniumespresso.com/news/installation-instructions-for-londinium-r-digital-pre-infusion-module

very soon we will also have an app that will allow you to change the settings on the pressure transducer from your smart phone/tablet

kind regards

reiss.

John McCarthy

What is the cost to repair in present configuration? It works a charm as is.

Bob

Reiss Gunson

hi john

another one of these; https://londiniumespresso.com/store/espresso-machine-parts/p-250-mater-pressure-switch-factory-set-to-3-5-bar?order=DESC&sort=p.price

kind regards

reiss.

Andrew Holt

I swapped the Mater for the digital kit, and recommend this route. The static pressure switches will go bad, so you'll be replacing them every now and then. The digital kit will last forever (in theory), and also give you the option of changing preinfusion pressure wirelessly soon.

John McCarthy

Got mater in. Easy install. But didn't solve problem. Looking over system, could it be the relay? I detect a dark spot at the bottom of relay.

Reiss Gunson

with the machine unplugged, or you are likely to receive an electric shock, pull the orange relay out of the blue relay holder, keep it on the same orientation, and carefully push it back in place taking care not to bend any of the fine pins

turn machine back on and see if that solves the issue

kind regards

reiss.

John McCarthy

I tried that before and it made no difference. But, when redoing at your direction, I noted there was a dark smudge at bottom between pins.

I noted the pins are not symmetrical. I would like to confirm layout. Single pin pair at top, correct?

bob

Reiss Gunson

Attached files

Reiss Gunson

Attached files

Reiss Gunson

as you can see, the white printing on the orange relay needs to be on the side facing the 30A Sirai pressure switch.

John McCarthy

Still a no go. Can't be much other than pressure switch and relay, can it?

Is this a common relay I can buy locally Or is it uncommon and fairly specific to Londinium. Sure missing my coffee!!!

Bob

Reiss Gunson

hi john

any chance you can post an image of your orange relay, detailing the discolouration that you report?

kind regards

reiss.

John McCarthy

Reiss Gunson

hi john

if your relay has gone puff it will be the very first one that has, but i do see the discolouration that you refer to

ill ask the factory tomorrow for a price and product code for the orange relay and add it to my website

kind regards

reiss.

John McCarthy

Been watching store for part. What do I have to do to move this forward?

I've been operating (kinda) as a normal single group for one double shot. It will only do one shot. Volume is low as there is no pressure to shrink air in group. Maybe 25-30 ml shot. Also seem like I should turn up boiler a bit. Seems like water is cooler. Would that be correct.

How close in design and layout is the L1 and the LR (not counting group of course).

Bob

Frans Goddijn

John McCarthy post=15980 wrote:
How close in design and layout is the L1 and the LR (not counting group of course).

The big commercial L1 has a big boiler / HX and the HX / thermosifon gets water from the mains. Pre-infusion pressure = line pressure.

The early "L1" feeds water from a low point out of the boiler through a small / long 'trombone' and then deep into the HX tube that goes through the boiler feeding the thermosifon. Boiler pressure = pre-infusion pressure

The L-R has a rotary pump which fills the boiler but also fills the HX with water from the reservoir, at a pressure that is set by either the little pressostat of the earlier models or the digital pre-infusion pressure unit in the later version.

Reiss Gunson

John McCarthy post=15980 wrote: Been watching store for part. What do I have to do to move this forward?

I've been operating (kinda) as a normal single group for one double shot. It will only do one shot. Volume is low as there is no pressure to shrink air in group. Maybe 25-30 ml shot. Also seem like I should turn up boiler a bit. Seems like water is cooler. Would that be correct.

How close in design and layout is the L1 and the LR (not counting group of course).

Bob

hi john
ive not forgotten
monday was a public holiday in the UK, and whilst i awoke to a number of emails from the factory this morning, the email i sent to them regarding the relay has not yet been replied to
i will resend email to the factory now and chase it when the UK starts business today, weds
please never ever change the boiler on an LR from 1.0 bar max or you will introduce a raft of issues quite unnecessarily
kind regards
reiss.

John McCarthy

Not to worry, forgot about heat exchanger setup. Dah.

Didn't touch pressurestat. Still set at or just below 1 bar

Bob

Reiss Gunson

hi john

ive got the part code and price and i will add it to the website now and then post the link to it here

brb

reiss.

Reiss Gunson

https://londiniumespresso.com/store/espresso-machine-parts/p-279-blue-and-orange-relay-for-londinium-r-legacy-part

John McCarthy

Relay in, still not functioning. Replaced relay, replaced pressure switch.

What else could it be. Again pump works to refill boiler, doesn't work when lever is pulled to pre infuse shot!

What's next?

Bob

Reiss Gunson

Please post an image here of your Mater pressure switch in your machine

Kind regards

Reiss

John McCarthy

Will do. It does seem to be the obvious culprit but I replaced it as part of my troubleshooting process.

I can’t imagine how, but could wire reversal cause this??

I’m away from house, will comply when I get home.


Bob

John McCarthy

Pictures as you requested.

Assuming the unit is not bad, then wire connection is all I can think of.

One wire on top blade connector

The other on bottom connector. (While I transfered from old to new with care, this us only place I feel I could have errored.

Bob

Reiss Gunson

hi john

if you look back to your original post here the first time you replaced the Mater; https://londiniumespresso.com/londinium-i-owners-forum/1091-londinium-r-perfect-until-today?start=0

you can see that you have the colours correct with orange on top and red on the bottom, and the middle terminal unused

im not sure of your electrical skill, but are you comfortable bypassing the Mater pressure switch taking the orange and red wire off the pressure switch and connecting them together to test that when the switch is closed that the pump turns on and remains on until the wires are disconnected from each other again

please dont even consider this unless you have performed a lot of electrical work and are entirely comfortable with doing so; the last thing i want is you or anyone injuring themselves rather than getting a certified electrician

are you able to video call me on FaceTime or WhatsApp?

kind regards

reiss.

John McCarthy

I used a set of insulated pliers to short across the spade connectors. I energized the machine and

Nothing

It appears I'm connected properly though both of my connectors are black insulated, not one white and one black.

The machine was not preheated before I did this, I assume it wouldn't make a difference

Bob

John McCarthy

I just heated the machine and drew water from boiler and pump started refilling boiler.

B

Reiss Gunson

hi john

can you please call me on Facetime on [email protected] if you have an Apple device, otherwise on +642040564412 on WhatsApp and we'll get to the bottom of this

its friday evening here now but i will be available on saturday so feel free to call on your friday morning

kind regards

reiss.