Light Roasts with a Londinium 1(2012-16)

Geoff Roberts

I’ve currently got some lightly roasted Yemen Mocha Ismaili, which is my first light roast since buying my pre 2016 Londinium 1. I’m struggling to make a good coffee with it, and wondering if anyone could share some tips?

I have pre infusion times that I think are too long, at around 15 seconds to first drop, and extraction time that is too quick at around 20 seconds for 27 grams. Boiler pressure is at 1.4 bar.

I’m grinding significantly finer than I ever have before. The first cup I made at my normal grind had a pre infusion time of about 30 sec to first drop and was sour and acidic. The coffee is tasting better with the finer grind and the sour taste has gone, but it’s ok rather than great.

Frans Goddijn

Some roasters who want to jump on train of the fasionable demand for 'light roast' terminate the roast earlier which does give one a lighter roast but also a less developed bean which is harder to extract on the more of less 'classic' machines.

I'd suggest to try different roasters' 'light' beans and if you find one you really like, stay with that for a while.

Otherwise, keep enjoying the more classic roasts which saves you money on wasted beans, saves you time in experimentation and possible a little frustration.

The current L-R with the digital unit makes it very very easy to tame the light roasts as the grinds will be hit with enough heat & pressure to compensate for what they missed in the roaster ;-)

Trevor Watters

Hi Geoff,

I would increase the dosage a bit and continue to tamp seeing how the increased dosage affects the flow rate. I assume that you are using the 18gm basket so it can hold a little more before it touches the screen.
Longer pre-infusion does not necessarily mean bitter and acidic. Sometimes higher dosage and heavier tamp on a slightly courser grind will also result in a better extraction.

Cheers

Trevor

Geoff Roberts

Frans Goddijn post=15414 wrote: Some roasters who want to jump on train of the fasionable demand for 'light roast' terminate the roast earlier which does give one a lighter roast but also a less developed bean which is harder to extract on the more of less 'classic' machines.

I'd suggest to try different roasters' 'light' beans and if you find one you really like, stay with that for a while.

Otherwise, keep enjoying the more classic roasts which saves you money on wasted beans, saves you time in experimentation and possible a little frustration.

The current L-R with the digital unit makes it very very easy to tame the light roasts as the grinds will be hit with enough heat & pressure to compensate for what they missed in the roaster ;-)

This is the first beans I’ve bought from this roaster, and also the first coffee I’ve had from Yemen. Perhaps the roast is not quite right for these beans. My coffee this morning was better, and I gave a kilo to go so I will keep trying!

I do have some light roast Ethiopian beans from another roaster to try and compare.

Geoff Roberts

Trevor Watters post=15415 wrote: Hi Geoff,

I would increase the dosage a bit and continue to tamp seeing how the increased dosage affects the flow rate. I assume that you are using the 18gm basket so it can hold a little more before it touches the screen.
Longer pre-infusion does not necessarily mean bitter and acidic. Sometimes higher dosage and heavier tamp on a slightly courser grind will also result in a better extraction.

Cheers

Trevor

Thanks Trevor, I will try that. I am using 16g into the same basket.

I ground finer again today and have tamed the unwanted flavors, but the cup itself wasn’t particularly interesting. Not bad, but not exciting,

Jonathan Lambin

When pulling light roasts with my L1, I typically start with a higher dose (19g) and a much finer grind. I distribute with the Londinium tool as always, then prep and tamp.

I rarely go above 10 seconds of pre-infusion at boiler pressure. What gives me good results is an active pre-infusion by holding the lever at the point where the lever catches. You can then play with that active PI time or weight the amount of coffee extraxted in that phase.

The end of the pull is sometimes fast so I make sure to remove the cup at first blonding signs or anything suggesting puck fracture.

I usually dump a little more grinds than usual since I don't single dose with my Fiorenzato F64E.
What grinder aren you using?

There's a thread on HB about pressure profiling techniques for spring lever machines that is quite a useful guide I find.

Of course, owning a LR with the PI module and a 83mm flat single dosing grinder is an ideal solution to tame those super light finicky roasts without working out only your right arm with that silly active PI.... but I do appreciate the simplicity of my L1. Very much actually. I guess I'll just have to start pulling with my left hand more often...

Geoff Roberts

Jonathan Lambin post=15430 wrote: When pulling light roasts with my L1, I typically start with a higher dose (19g) and a much finer grind. I distribute with the Londinium tool as always, then prep and tamp.

I rarely go above 10 seconds of pre-infusion at boiler pressure. What gives me good results is an active pre-infusion by holding the lever at the point where the lever catches. You can then play with that active PI time or weight the amount of coffee extraxted in that phase.

The end of the pull is sometimes fast so I make sure to remove the cup at first blonding signs or anything suggesting puck fracture.

I usually dump a little more grinds than usual since I don't single dose with my Fiorenzato F64E.
What grinder aren you using?

There's a thread on HB about pressure profiling techniques for spring lever machines that is quite a useful guide I find.

Of course, owning a LR with the PI module and a 83mm flat single dosing grinder is an ideal solution to tame those super light finicky roasts without working out only your right arm with that silly active PI.... but I do appreciate the simplicity of my L1. Very much actually. I guess I'll just have to start pulling with my left hand more often...

Thanks for this, I wasn’t aware you could use the lever in that way, and will also look for the HB thread.

With your 10 second PI, do use always gave the first drop coming through, or do you cap around that time whether the coffee has dropped or not?

My grinder is a La Cimbali cadet. A big flat but would be ideal, but that will have to wait.

Jonathan Lambin

For the lighter roasts I have pulled so far with my L1, I aim for no coffee beads visible at the bottom of the basket for 7-10ish sec pre-infusion at boiler pressure, then active pre-infusion until the bottom is filled with coffee beads and I have a few inconsistent streams towards the middle. That's when I let go of the lever. I use the same technique with medium roasts but aim for shorter PI time in both phases.

If I get drops during passive PI when pulling light roasts, it usually results in a fast pour and underextracted shot.

It's actually a very good subject since the ability to pull lighter roasts and higher yield is a key in the philosophy that drove the design changes in the LR.
But, the L1 is very capable of pulling good shots with all sorts of roasts albeit in different fashion and results. I'd be interested to hear about other L1 owner's experience on this matter.

Reiss Gunson

good stuff jonathan.

Matthew Hoffman

My methods with light roasts on my L1 are similar to those above. Yesterday, I pulled 30g from 15g of a Tim Wendelboe espresso (which is as light as most other roasters' filter roasts). I gave it 3-4 seconds pre-infusion at boiler pressure (1.2 bar), then a few more seconds at the lever catch point (until the bottom was fully beaded and began to drip). The result tasted fine and the measured EY was 22.4%.

Matt

Geoff Roberts

Jonathan Lambin post=15436 wrote: For the lighter roasts I have pulled so far with my L1, I aim for no coffee beads visible at the bottom of the basket for 7-10ish sec pre-infusion at boiler pressure, then active pre-infusion until the bottom is filled with coffee beads and I have a few inconsistent streams towards the middle. That's when I let go of the lever. I use the same technique with medium roasts but aim for shorter PI time in both phases.

If I get drops during passive PI when pulling light roasts, it usually results in a fast pour and underextracted shot.

It's actually a very good subject since the ability to pull lighter roasts and higher yield is a key in the philosophy that drove the design changes in the LR.
But, the L1 is very capable of pulling good shots with all sorts of roasts albeit in different fashion and results. I'd be interested to hear about other L1 owner's experience on this matter.

Many thanks for the detail, I’m looking forward to trying this in the morning.

Jonathan Lambin

Matthew Hoffman post=15438 wrote: My methods with light roasts on my L1 are similar to those above. Yesterday, I pulled 30g from 15g of a Tim Wendelboe espresso (which is as light as most other roasters' filter roasts). I gave it 3-4 seconds pre-infusion at boiler pressure (1.2 bar), then a few more seconds at the lever catch point (until the bottom was fully beaded and began to drip). The result tasted fine and the measured EY was 22.4%.

Matt

Those are very fine numbers! And the espresso was just "fine??
I wonder if a longer PI would get similar TDS but variations in flavors...?

Matthew Hoffman

Jonathan Lambin post=15441 wrote: [quote=Matthew Hoffman post=15438]My methods with light roasts on my L1 are similar to those above. Yesterday, I pulled 30g from 15g of a Tim Wendelboe espresso (which is as light as most other roasters' filter roasts). I gave it 3-4 seconds pre-infusion at boiler pressure (1.2 bar), then a few more seconds at the lever catch point (until the bottom was fully beaded and began to drip). The result tasted fine and the measured EY was 22.4%.

Matt

Those are very fine numbers! And the espresso was just "fine??
I wonder if a longer PI would get similar TDS but variations in flavors...?

British understatement. Actually, the 6oz flat whites I made for me and a friend were among the best either of us have ever had. Full of flavour, but with no roasty or other distracting imperfections. I haven't had a chance to try it as straight espresso yet, but I was planning to grind a little finer to slow down the extraction a tad. I have some pleasurable experimentation ahead of me.

Jonathan Lambin

British understatement or French Canadian one-dimensional interpretation?

Geoff Roberts

I experimented with active PI this morning, and had a great result. My coffee was delicious, lots of character which had been missing, and a very rich Flavour.

From my first attempt with more to learn, I’m very happy with the result.

Jonathan Lambin

Geoff Roberts post=15445 wrote: I experimented with active PI this morning, and had a great result. My coffee was delicious, lots of character which had been missing, and a very rich Flavour.

From my first attempt with more to learn, I’m very happy with the result.

That's great!
Now imagine all the new possibilities!
*Says the guy who's owned his L1 for just about 3 months...

Geoff Roberts

Jonathan Lambin post=15446 wrote: [quote=Geoff Roberts post=15445]I experimented with active PI this morning, and had a great result. My coffee was delicious, lots of character which had been missing, and a very rich Flavour.

From my first attempt with more to learn, I’m very happy with the result.

That's great!
Now imagine all the new possibilities!
*Says the guy who's owned his L1 for just about 3 months...

I’ve had mine about 6 weeks, so I guess your experience brings wisdom.