Playing with flavour profiles..

Cade Sutton

My local roaster makes a point of pouring me a shot from whatever batch of beans I purchase from him - he has a Robur paired with a fairly recent San Remo 2-group pump machine. It is great to be able to compare his shots to my own, coming off the L2 and my old Faema grinder - with its comparatively small, flat burrs.

I have said before, I am no expert, so these are just ramblings really.

What I have been noticing with his shots is this really bright, acidic bloom that pretty much pervades the whole shot, with all the other flavours and experiences of the espresso playing second-fiddle to this overwhelming aspect. This has been a feature of most of the roasts I have tried at his establishment.

When I get home to the L2, this phenomena is almost entirely absent - I end up with a smoother shot, which develops in the mouth and is far more mellow. As I dose higher, I get hints of the bloom, but this never peaks like it seems to on shots from the San Remo.

I really love the delivery of the L2 shots - but I quite like the excitement of the acid from the San Remo too - so I had a play around with the lever this morning to see if I could get the best of both worlds....

I dosed approx 18gr and tamped fairly firmly on a fine grind. I then pulled the lever down to let the group fill, and pre-infusion start. Watching the basket, I allowed pre-infusion to run until I saw the first beads of extraction appearing - about 8 seconds. I released the lever and let the extraction centralise and a couple of drips fall, then I pulled the lever down again, let the group refill (this was momentary) and released it a second time. Then I just let the shot run, removing it at blonding - around 35ml.

Disco! There was the bloom - but nowhere near as intense as the San Remo - say about 80% - and the other falvours were all there too in abundance - not relegated to the back rows like they were from the pump machine. The shot was tasty and 'exciting' in the one breath. I emulated the shot for my partner who felt it was the nicest she had from Londinium so far.

Awesome to have that lever there to help get what you are after - because that is what it is all about - right?

I heard and read a few things about lever machines that suggested things like 'less crema'. 'less body', less 'chocolate', 'less 'control'... Now I still have a long education ahead of me, but after even a relatively short time with the Londinium - I feel like it is well and truly putting paid to that nonsense.

Any body else using fellini or other techniques like this to influence their espresso?

Reiss Gunson

Thanks for posting Cade

Yes, to make meaningful comparison you need to know what dose he was running and a more capable grinder wouldn't hurt either

Dose large, I suspect he is around 22-23g, grinder slightly more coarse to compensate, get hold of the same roast, don't run the shot too long and I promise you all our levers will deliver something you would swear was lemon juice, if that's your thing

If you pass through Auckland let me know and I'll show you on my gear

Kind regards

Reiss

Cade Sutton

Thanks Reiss

I agree - I suspect he is approaching triples in dosage - he runs the pump long, but for low volume - and highly gassy shots which seem to settle in the cup quickly - if you catch my drift. The little shot glass seems bottomless - just taking second after second of flow, but ultimately filling very slowly (fresh roasted beans?)

I am not for a second saying that the L2 isn't able to replicate his result - I am sure it can be done. Perhaps I should take my warnings about being amateur a step further and keep quiet until I can be more scientific in my observations.

My point was that with the gear I have (standard basket, crap grinder) and using a dose that is not highly unsuitable, I had another arrow in my quiver with which to manipulate the shot - lever technique. I had previously been unable to bring out that acid with different grinds, doses, tamps..

Maybe my post should have read:

On my old pump machine I had beans, grind, dose, tamp, shot duration to influence how my espresso tasted. With the Londinium I have pre-infusion duration and lever technique to add to that list - for which I am thankful.

Reiss Gunson

It's all good, I just think you will find more flexibility when your larger
basket arrives

Cade Sutton

I am sure you are right.

Reiss Gunson

whenever people start holding forth about what levers can and can't do, my suggestion is you ask them very quietly what lever machine it is that they have used that they are basing their comments on

manufacturers today are either designing products that aren't intended to be serviceable, i.e. Nespresso (and at the same time crowing about their carbon neutral, global warming credentials), or they are designing machines that are sufficiently complex that they require a factory technician to service them. this creates a valuable new revenue line on their income statement

Cade Sutton

Reiss I have no idea how I posted this in the beans category - feel free to shift it back to the Londinium Owners forum...

Yes there seems to be some interesting opinions out there which aparently lump everything with a lever on it into the La Pav category.

On a different note - I have just been enjoying the Brazilian beans you sent... much more my style! Gorgeous syrupy extractions and flavour plus. Delish.

Reiss Gunson

i think this is the right category isn't it? i can't see the problem.

Frans Goddijn

In The Netherlands, a glossy has just come out with a 4 page illustrated article about espresso recipes / tastes, written by a friend (Jan van der Weel) and me.

Two days ago when I was on my way with co-author Jan to deliver copies of the glossy to the 5 specialty coffee bars where we interviewed the baristas for the article, we tasted a lot of coffee and had interesting conversations about the subject.

One of the things that struck me and that I remembered, is one highly experienced barista telling me about how he plays with doses and extractions. When I assumed that with "low dose" he would mean he would shift from the 18g VST basket to a 15g VST basket, he said no, absolutely not. He meant just dosing 17.5g in the VST as opposed to the other end where he would dose 22g in that same basket. "I never change baskets because there are so many variable already in grind setting, dose 17.5--22g , pre-infusion, shot length, I would not want the extra hassle of completely different basket with different holes, a different number of holes, different flow."

I decided to keep that advice in mind and I will stick to my 18g VST basket and try every option before moving to a different basket.

I asked his recipe for the delightful shot we were tasting and currently I'm exploring a similar extraction of 44-45g from 18g of beans, in about 45 seconds. Rarely tried those longer shots but they are nice!

So if you like the shots in a cafe, go ahead and ask what they are doing, what basket, what timing in pre-infusion and if they do pressure profiling, it can help to know what they do and take that into account also, even when your lever profile may be different.

It helps to know that the super high end machines mostly try to accomplish a lever pressure profile which you already have in the real deal ideal version ;-)

Cade Sutton

Frans thanks for your words.

I have an 18gr VST basket due to arrive today - I look forward to getting to know it! I will report back.