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Strange noise
Hi all, after the boiler light comes on and the red light goes off my l1 has developed a recurring strange noise . I've talked the top off and can't see a leak inside , the boiler is coming on every couple of minutes , each time with the same sizzling noise after it goes off. Any help please .
Comments
You will have a leak, you just need to find it
Try a shining a torch around in there, in the evening with the lights off should help you to see any leaking steam
You can also use a dentist's mirror, which will fog when the leaking steam condenses on it
The other you can do is roll up a sheet of A4 paper to create a listening horn
Hold it to your ear as you move it to different locations around the machine looking for source of the sound
A good place to check first is the safety valve
This is the tall brass valve in the centre of the boiler
Keep us posted so we can add info as necessary
no sign of the clip - easiest to load to youtube then paste the youtube link
fast cycling of the boiler also suggests a leak in the system
element should be coming on about once every minute & a half (90s) - obviously variable depending on the environment, but not a bad rule of thumb
kind regards
reiss
Ok that should be the clip, the boiler is coming on just over every 70seconds after actually timing it . The noise seems to have abated for now , but It did this recently only to return again today .
if you work your way around the machine you will find it
check also the join between the pipes terminating at steam and hot water valves
also check that the anti-vac valve is seated - touch in quick succession about 10 times with the tip of a screwdriver to ensure there isn't a piece of grit there preventing the valve from seating fully
I'm just prepping supper
later this evening i will put together some images & clips
anti vac valve the stubby little button valve to the left of the safety valve
just tap the nipple with the end of a screwdriver or similar to depress it without giving yourself a steam burn
pliers on the nipple of the safety valve and instead of depressing, you want to rotate quickly, left or right 90 degrees - probably twice
reiss
8 sec to heat up to 1.2bar
84 sec to cool to 0.9bar
If the noises are normal and cycling time is ok , the it's not a problem for me. Just want to be sure , there is nothing wrong with the machine .
Cheers
I timed 5 cycles, room temperature at 21°, the machine is on 24 hours a day 7 days a week and the last coffee was made 6 hours ago.
This is what they looked like:
1 min 52 sec
17 sec
1 min 53 sec
17 sec
1 min 59 sec
16 sec
1 min 54 sec
16 sec
1 min 59 sec
16 sec
The pressure cycles between 1.2 and 1.5 bar.
Just a few more factors to consider:
2400w element
Water tank almost empty
I suspect this is the same issue as yours. If you shine a torch into the internals you should see a little whiff of steam coming up from it. Can you do this?
If it is, then you will need to take a needle nose pliers and carefully but firmly twist the nipple pin around - either direction. You should hear a groaning sound as the spring adjusts in the valve. And then push the needle in a few times in succession. It s helpful to do this whilst the machine is on. Be careful but be confident.
My value still hisses sometimes but not enough to be an issue. Also ambient temperature does impact the cycle times.
Your stat is set to a higher rate. My machine (and recent machines) are set between 1.0 and 1.2.
Interestingly this morning - with the machine set on a timer for over an hour - cycling was about 65 secs with the room temperature at around 18C, but the deadband was tighter a few seconds (ie when the element stays on) . When the room temp got up to 21C it was cycling around 85 secs
Martin are you leaving your machine on all day? If you are using it a couple of times a day I wouldnt get too stressed about it. You have commercial grade components in there. They are not going anywhere in a hurry. Lets see if we can help you at least eliminate the noise however.
I'll try and post another clip tonight , it just sounds like it's dripping somewhere , but can't see any steam anywhere or water.or condensation. I'm happy to live with noise as long as it's not indicative of something Else.
Cheers guys for all the help tho
i only have the very first machine with me at the moment and having timed the cycle to 70s now that the weather has cooled - but i would be surprised if it is a completely pressure tight system knowing what sort of life it has had
as you can see it is highly dependant on ambient as the group is a highly effective radiator with the thermosiphon circulating out to it and back to keep it warm, and drop in ambient sucks heat out of the system measurably faster
other factors that may influence, at least on tank fed machines, is how full you keep the reservoir tank of water as this does become quite warm so in acting as a heat sink should have the effect of slowing the rate at which heat is lost from the boiler
Martin: if you are talking about the noise in your clip that first appears at the 8 second mark in the clip i am fairly confident that this is the safety valve just beginning to open. First question would be what is the max pressure reading on your pressure stat and assuming that is 1.2-1.3 then i would say you need to do the pliers trick with the safety valve again to get it to fully seat
I made a short clip of two such cysles with the view from the outside of the machine (pressure gauge) and the inside of the machine and will post the link soon.
Room temp is 18º Celsius, machine has been on for a few hours. Took the top off to film it better and that may have been of some influence on the situation I was measuring of course.
I enjoy studying this but I think it's of little importance to the results in the cup. If steam would escape inside the machine, that would be something, or if it would switch on and off every few seconds, that would surprise me.
46s-75s; recovery time 5-7s; temp 22-23deg
The thermosiphon is an absolute marvel, and it is very, very sensitive.
Frans I'd still be interested in seeing the clips for peace of mind
Cheers martin
Upload is at 95%, so any minute now
(2850 W element)
As I understand things, it is a good idea to leave the portafilter loosely locked into the group when the machine is on, this keeps the rubber warm and more malleable for when the two parts are being used in anger (or maybe when making coffee too
FWIW at this point I tested my cycle times...
2.8k element
On 8.8 seconds
Off 2 min 31 seconds
Ambient temp 20C
Pressure 0.9 - 1.2 bar
My quiescent period seems to be a lot longer than most... I am just wondering whether it might be because I have a "Cafelat microfibre" cloth spread over the top of the machine, with a few cups keeping warm there?
If so, could this be a good argument for insulating the boiler as reported by Reiss sometime back on his blog?
http://londiniumespresso.com/blog/interested-in-insulating-the-boiler-on-your-londinium-i#.UlgonxZsi-I