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Plumbing in L1 to the water main

Hi,

I am currently planning out my hookup of the L1 to the main water line under my sink and I think this thread would be a great start to the topic!

The high quality hose that came attached to the L1 isn't long enough to reach under my sink and I want to hook up another tube of similar quality and then attach it to the extra water outlet under my sink.

The hose that comes attached to the L1 is perfect in that it will attach to this extra water valve under my sink, but it's not long enough!

I need the hose to reach approx another 22 feet (7 meters).

Can anyone tell me the nomenclature of what this tubing that comes attached to the L1 is called so I can shop for it online?

Thanks All,
~Joe

Comments

  • hi joe

    it is simply called braided stainless steel pressure hose

    it should be readily available, and possibly made to length if you find the right place

    try a plumbing merchant to start with

    other owners in Canada may have solved this one already & know exactly where to direct you

    kind regards


    reiss.
  • HI Joe,

    I bought my extra length of hose from Home Depot. It is of the same construction in that it is braided stainless steel water hose. It can usually be found close to the fittings and is intended to connect dishwashers to the kitchen sink water supply. I bought two lengths and connected them with a union. Don't quote me on the size here but I believe this is the size I used. I also got my filter from home depot as well as the sharkbite connector with integrated 1/4 turn shut off valve (to tap into the pex pipe which supplies my tap).

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded-3-8-in-x-3-8-in-x-72-in-Stainless-Steel-Dishwasher-Connector-FSD72H/100660196#.UktJ22Ske0w



  • Patrick,

    Thanks! This is very helpful and I will look into it.

    I've been searching online at work here and there and this tubing always seems to be used in some automotive fashion so this will help!
  • Joe,

    I suggest you also consider 3/8" flexible plastic water line for the length you need. Adapting from NPT is easy with John Guest or similar brand push-to-connect fittings. I was able to source fittings and line at Home Depot but Chris' Coffee Service, McMaster-Carr, etc., offers these very common fittings and hose. You can also easily and affordably integrate plastic ball valves...and water filters (Chris' Coffee)/softeners upstream of your LI.

    Plumbing in was one of the best things I've done...other than buying the LI :D

    Dan
  • I am in a similar situation, I am keen to plumb in my LI, but I need to go through a wall, around the pantry, over a door and through a second wall to get water from the sink to the bench that I have my LI on.

    Just a couple of questions, when you guys plumb in, are you planing to plumb in behind the pump (to maintain water pressure) or after the pump (to have a silent machine) ?

    If there is no problem with water pressure is there any downside to removing the pump?

    When I remove the tank from the situation what will happen to the warning beep that goes off when my water tank gets low?

    Does the boiler have its own low water safety cut off, just in case the water mains are unexpectedly turned off or something?

    Cheers
    Ian
  • I took some pictures when the plumber came to prepare the connection for my plumbed-in L1:


    image



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  • Ian,

    Had allot of trouble finding John Guest stuff up here... there was very little of it at my Home Depot so I just opted for something I know better. Brass fittings and NPT, compression fittings etc.

    I removed my pump from the equation, the machine is now as silent as the fill solenoid will allow (and the solenoid shutting sound seems to be in direct relationship to the pressure regulating valve's setting in that the higher the setting say 5bar the louder the sound when the solenoid valve snaps shut.)

    The low water alarm from the tank is now bypassed by the green jumper wire supplied with the plumb in kit I think. (Reiss could better speak to this)

    The machine to the best of my memory, has warned me audibly when I fired up the machine and forgot to open the under the sink 1/4 turn shut off valve that supplies the L1 with wate.
  • Patrick Bennett post=64 wrote: The machine to the best of my memory, has warned me audibly when I fired up the machine and forgot to open the under the sink 1/4 turn shut off valve that supplies the L1 with wate.

    Same here. When I switch on the L1 and I didn't open the water inlet under the sink, the L1 beeps after a few seconds. Then I need to switch it off, open the water supply and then switch on again. Also when I go out and leave the L1 on but switch off the water (just in case a solenoid breaks while I'm away and floods the place), sometimes when I get back the L1 is beeping.
  • hi ian

    as long as you have got plenty of water pressure the length of the hose isn't critical to the machine - it is fine to remove the pump as long as you have at least 1.5bar to ensure the incoming water can overcome the internal pressure in the boiler, otherwise the water heads in the wrong direction (outwards) :(

    how to plumb the machine is detailed in the owners manual and a pdf of the latest version and also fitting instructions for wenge handles are about to be added with read access to them for owners only

    in our plumb in kit there is a bypass wire for the low water sensor wires on the water tank, for example

    as other posters have already mentioned it is critical that an isolating valve is fitted and closed when the machine is not in use - otherwise the solenoid valve is all there is to ensure you come back to a dry kitchen. this is not a design weakness of our machines, it is true for all plumbed espresso machines, and washing machines too. it 'shouldn't' happen, but if it does it is likely to cause thousands of dollars of water damage.

    it is particularly important to use an isolating valve if a water filtration/softening system has been used as it is not uncommon for small media from the filtration system to break free and prevent complete closure of the solenoid valve
  • Awesome pics Frans, Lots of thanks to everyone on this thread. I'll be going to the hardware store soon.

    I've decided to opt for the same tubing type that came with the L1. I'll post my results when I can for other people to see.

    Glad to see this thread is going well!
  • Ian,

    Obviously there are many ways to run water to your L1.

    In your case though what Dan Streight suggests is what I did too, and my application consists of a 3/8 plastic pipe (John Guest) running from the RO system in my garage to the L1 in the kitchen.

    This means that it has to run across the garage ceiling, through an 11" wall, along the back of my units and then up through the kitchen worktop behind the L1, around 10 meters.

    This would have been pretty disruptive in 15ml copper... In the plastic, there are no joints and where it is seen, it looks a bit like a run of white electrical cable.
  • Patrick,

    I went to the hardware store and set everything up successfully, but when i went to turn the water on it leaks where it is connected to the L1 hose!

    It's strange, it doesn't leak anywhere else. I did have to use a compression fitting to screw on the the L1 hose since it was larger.

    When the water is running and I touch the L1 hose it spurts out water behind the head where it screws on, further it just keeps leaking!

    Any thoughts?
  • joe jeczen post=137 wrote: set everything up successfully, but when i went to turn the water on it leaks [...] I did have to use a compression fitting to screw on the the L1 hose since it was larger.

    seems you could try again and set it up even more successfuly by starting with the right size fittings ;)
  • Joe,

    It looks like you may need to order the Fitting listed here. https://londiniumespresso.com/store/accessories/brass-adaptor-nut-3-8-bsp-male-to-3-8-npt-male
    The hose supplied with the L1 has brittish threads and the (Dishwasher hose) you and trying to connect to it has american threads.

    SO if you order that adapter from Londinium, all you will need is a fitting that will go from 3/8 Male NPT to whatever will fit in your dishwasher braided hose (3/8" Compression, don't quote me).

    Before this part was made available by Reiss I just machined my own at work. Hope this helps, sorry for your troubles... I too made many, many trips and attempts at plumbing in before I finally had everything I need to go through with it.

    Cheers
  • hi joe

    would you mind putting up a photo of what bits you are trying to connect to what?

    as i understand it the fitting on the end of your L1 hose is 3/4"BSP, which we use as for most regions this is the thread size used on washing machine fittings, which allows people to hook up fairly easily. it is also a standard part for the manufacturer

    it gets complicated as the plumb in kit i offer is custom and has 3/8"BSP on both ends. we then offer the adaptor mentioned above which will get you from 3/8"BSP to 3/8"NPT, a common North American thread size

    perhaps we should change the fitting on the factory build to 3/8"BSP, but it means a custom part and makes it 'more difficult' for the majority of customers

    i am sorry for the hassle you are having, but an image might allow us to help you

    kind regards

    reiss.

    PS - just remembered, on the 3/4"BSP end fittings we can use a double adaptor, the first getting us from 3/4"BSP down to 3/8"BSP and the second getting us from 3/8"BSP to 3/8"NPT. that will keep everyone happy and will mean that all hoses can terminate with a 3/4"BSP going forward, which eliminates a custom part, which are always a pain in terms of stock management, i.e. if you run order them too late you run out of stock. with the standard fitting we will always be able to restock quickly.
  • vid 1

    vid 2

    Hope this helps, a couple vids.
  • thanks for taking the time to put those up

    well as you have a 3/8"BSP terminal fitting on the end of the L1 hose I can send you the brass adaptor to get from BSP to NPT

    why i believe it is leaking is the male component your are mating to it has a little too much thread tape on it, which is preventing the male thread travelling in far enough to push the against the bottom of the compression fitting on the end of the L1 hose

    as a result it is leaking out the back of the fitting

    try removing a little of the thread tape so the male end can travel right to the bottom of the thread so it causes the female fitting to seal at th back

    i think the best thing to do is for me to ship you the adaptor

    sorry for the hassle

    kind regards


    reiss
  • Joe,

    In Video 2, when you look into the L1's hose connection you will see a rounded brass bulb. In the pipe fitting world this is called a nipple. The Brittish thread on that hose connection is BSP (Brittish Standard Pipe) but unlike the common north american pipe threads NPT (National Pipe Thread) the BSP is what we call a Parellel thread and the NPT is a tapered thread.

    What does this all mean?

    Your BSP connection's (L1 Hose) sealing surface is on the rounded brass bulb (Nipple) inside the hose connection. A face seal they would call it.

    That brass adaptor pictured in the video is (my best guess) Compression fitting to 3/8 NPT.... the problem is the instead of threading all the way into your L1 hose and making a face seal on that brass bulb (Nipple) the tapered profile of the NPT fitting is jamming up against the first few threads of the L1 hose.

    This also has the effect of not seating the swivel hex portion of the L1 hose on the outside surface of the brass bulb (Nipple) which is why it is leaking there.

    If you keep that compression to NPT fitting (Which you should)... and purchase Reiss' 3/8"BSP to 3/8" NPT adapter you will now be able to connect the two male 3/8" NPT fittings with what is called a coupling. It will be brass and will accept 3/8" NPT male connections into each end, it is a very comming item and easy to obtain at most any hardware store.

    I will try to take some pictures of what I have at home to bring this all into focus.... but that adapter fitting Reiss had made up would have made my plumb job allot easier... and he's not lying when he says it's hard to come by. I searched the internet high and low and ended up ordering the wrong thing twice!

    So rare is it that most other North Americans plumbing in European espresso machines usually just find a plastic fitting and force it to conform... kind of a square peg round hole scenario.

    Hope this helps, I know this is a huge disappointment for you but I promise it will all be worth it once that baby is hooked up to the water.... just a damn great feeling

    ;)

    Cheers,
    Patrick
  • Ah, of course Patrick, you are exactly right - it is the taper on the NPT that is causing the issue.

    All 110V machines are now meant to ship with the adaptor fitted to the end of the hose

    For whatever reason yours was not Joe, so I'll pack one up for you now

    As the courier has already visited for the day, it will leave here on Monday, so I expect you'll get it on Thursday

    Kind regards


    Reiss.

    PS - i have found some 3/4"BSP to 3/8"BSP adaptors here too, so I will add these to the site as some of you may find them very useful, not just in the States, but also elsewhere if you want to step down from 3/4"BSP to 3/8"BSP
  • Ah, the adapter. I remember going to look for this part on the old site before I ordered and I couldn't find it for some reason so I assumed that it was just included with all the current revisions for N. American L1 customers. :(

    Hopefully the vids I posted will confirm if I need it or not.
  • Reiss, Patrick, thank you so much! I will look forward to getting this unique part and installing it to start enjoying single origin espresso properly!

    Also, I'll try easing up on the tape in the mean time Reiss. ;)
  • Okay... So here in this picture is my connection.... convoluted as it may be.

    On the left is the dishwasher hose which is connected to the water supply under my sink, it is then connected to a compression to NPT adaptor. The male half of that NPT adaptor is then threaded (with a proper amount of pipe tape :P ) into a NPT coupling.

    The other side of the NPT coupling (big brass piece in the centre) WAS also a tapered NPT thread. It isn't that the diameter of the two fittings (BSP and NPT) is that different.... it's more that one is straight and the other is tapered... even the thread pitch is quite close (number of threads per inch... or per mm).

    Working at a Naval dockyard as I do (The oldest continuous employer of tradespeople in North America) and that dockyard having had to maintain... not one but two classes of used submarines we bought from England, our tool cribs are still chocker block full of British Thread Taps and Dies (tools used for cutting threads). So like anybody in a pinch would do I ran a BSP pipe tap into the NPT coupling (which didn't remove that much material at all) essentially making it a NPT to BSP adapting coupler.

    Then one of the wrong fittings I ordered was installed and the L1's hose was finally connected.

    Now before anyone gets overly concerned about my hurried jury rigging.... the whole arrangement minus the hoses was assembled with proper teflon tape... in a pipe vice.... with fitted wrenches.... the arrangement was then hydrostatically tested to a static pressure of 1500psi over a period of 10mins. No leaks, no weeps no more tears.

    No problems since... knock on wood.

    She ain't pretty, she just looks that way.

    Cheers

    Attached files

    image
  • I understand! I never knew that the threads were that different as it connected fine, all I knew is that this connector was sometimes needed.

    Your fitting looks really sturdy Patrick! Really nice old school craftsmanship there, just like the L1 no doubt.

    I'm really fortunate that you stuck around on this thread and shared your valuable insight with me.

    Hopefully this will help others in some way in the future.

    Reiss, your customer service is a blessing and I can't wait to easily resolve this issue and tell my girlfriend "I told you so!" about not needing a plumber.

    Many Thanks,
    ~Joe
  • You must make the switch from BSP threads to American NPT if you are in North America. 3/8" BSP is definitely NOT 3/8" NPT.

    I bypassed the pump, and in fact removed it for more room to work inside the machine.

    I did not use the braided hose provided since it made the conversion to NPT a much more bulky arrangement. I went straight to 3/8" NPT directly off the solenoid.


    image


    image

    I put a 3/8" NPT ball valve on the 3/8" braided line once it exits the L-I.

    I wish the L-I had a shutoff valve incorporated into the side or rear, or maybe directly under the machine to make it easy.
  • Reiss,

    You are a true gentleman, my part arrived a day early taped up to a gorgeous bag of your coffee!

    Here is a pic of the resulting shot. Unfortunately the shot came from my EC155 which I have mastered over the last year. I still need to go to the hardware store and get a fitting, but coincidentally have no transportation as of yesterday.

    The Kirimahiga AA has a sour hit with notes of apple - very interesting!

    The beans themselves are larger than what I've been using and have incredible aroma.

    I will update again when I have the L1 successfully hooked up.

    image


    image
  • hi joe

    ah, good. what do you need now? a female 3/8"NPT?

    if there is one thing i would like to see a lot more of on here and thats clips & images of the espresso prepared on L1s

    best

    reiss.
  • Reiss:

    Start a topic for something like "Shot results with the L-I" and see what happens.
  • Reiss,

    You guessed it, the tubing I'm using is smaller than the L1's. It's all good though, the extra bag of coffee made my day.

    Stephen,

    I suppose I should've posted those pics in a new thread since this one's about plumbing, but I was just excited about the shot quality I got from the Londinium coffee.

    I've been using locally roasted fresh beans that are awesome, but just when you think it can't get better it does!

    I'm sure there will be a good shot thread soon.
  • UPDATE.... Success on the plumbing connection!! Had to go to the hardware store for another fitting, it still dripped water, but then I added the rubber washer it came with and.. it worked!

    It was a lot of taking fittings apart and together again, by the end I wanted one of my beers instead of a coffee, but elected to make my first espresso on the L1. It came out sublime!

    I was really making quality way beyond the regular café with my 80 dollar delonghi, but this machine does make a difference. The shot quality was way smoother and creamier plus I didn't have all the messy cleanup of wiping the grounds off the group. It was a very pleasant experience with the L1. Just a small pull on the lever, a little wipe, and voila'!

    I feel like I'm at the top of the mountain with the L1, there is clearly nothing better for the home lever enthusiast, nor the espresso enthusiast otherwise!

    :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
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